Will AA kill the maint. and F/A bases too? In St. Louis

[swamt]

Read this article this morning. Took note of the article saying everything will go on as normal and no plans to getting rid of F/A and maint. base in St. Louis;

"American’s flight attendant base and line maintenance base in St. Louis will remain in place, Miller said. Additionally, American’s flight schedule will not be affected by the pilot base closure."


“We’re not going to adjust the schedule in and out of St. Louis,” Miller said. “We’ll keep the same level of service going forward.”

Didn't AA say the same thing about St. Louis after TWA purchase when they had well over 400 flights per day and now they are down to 41 with only 19 being American's metal, the rest are contracted out? I would be a little worried for the Line maint. guys in the future. Look at DFW when Delta collapsed it. They went from 425 plus flights per day to 20 something and got rid of almost all maint personnel there.
What was the headcount for St. Louis maint personnel after TWA purchase and what is it today?
Here's the full article:

American Airlines closing St. Louis pilot base

 

[737823]

Swamt usually in this industry “your city will remain an important part of our network” and the like is codeword for its time to look at the transfer list.

There was a statement issued in July that they had no plans to close the base.

http://www.stltoday.com/news/traffi...cle_7fec1c74-5f1e-5cf1-a1d8-ba122d50a3ed.html

With only 19 daily mainline flights that’s barely enough to remain staffed on the TWU fleet agreement, and doesn’t warrant a base.

I would say it stands to reason line maintenance may draw down once the S80 leaves since the TW guys have lots of experience with the type. Some 737-8 work went to STL but why keep it there with so few aircraft movements?

Josh

 

[B737 driver]

Swamt usually in this industry “your city will remain an important part of our network” and the like is codeword for its time to look at the transfer list.

There was a statement issued in July that they had no plans to close the base.

http://www.stltoday.com/news/traffi...cle_7fec1c74-5f1e-5cf1-a1d8-ba122d50a3ed.html

With only 19 daily mainline flights that’s barely enough to remain staffed on the TWU fleet agreement, and doesn’t warrant a base.

I would say it stands to reason line maintenance may draw down once the S80 leaves since the TW guys have lots of experience with the type. Some 737-8 work went to STL but why keep it there with so few aircraft movements?

Josh

Where have shifted the flights too, Chicago or Charlotte?

 

[ATD]

The writing is on the WALL.

 

[swamt]

Josh, you make good points. Another problem I saw was the fact they are replacing the MD80 with 37-800's which have more seats therefore fewer aircraft needed and fewer flights. Can you elaborate on the TWU contract numbers as far as what the numbers are to keep maint there or as a base? I would be concerned once the 80's are gone and only 800's are doing the flights at St. Louis at what number of flights they will be reduced too? And, could that trigger a new announcement to possibly close the maint. and maybe even the F/A's bases at St. Louis?
A buddy of mine at Delta for almost 20 years never thought the DFW fiasco would ever happen either, but it did. He was forced to relocate (at his expense I might add) to Atlanta, then shortly after that quit on his 20th year anniversary and back to the DFW area to live. I too never thought TWA or even now AA in St. Louis would ever close as a base, but appears now that anything is possible. I grew up with TWA being the best airline out there, it was tough to watch them go away after using them for over 25 years.

 

[737823]

Where have shifted the flights too, Chicago or Charlotte?

Chicago and DFW years ago. STL was dehubbed officially April 2010, but the primary cuts were in 2003 and from 2003-2010 limped along with American Connection Trans States and Chataqua operated regional service.

Josh

 

[737823]

Josh, you make good points. Another problem I saw was the fact they are replacing the MD80 with 37-800's which have more seats therefore fewer aircraft needed and fewer flights. Can you elaborate on the TWU contract numbers as far as what the numbers are to keep maint there or as a base? I would be concerned once the 80's are gone and only 800's are doing the flights at St. Louis at what number of flights they will be reduced too? And, could that trigger a new announcement to possibly close the maint. and maybe even the F/A's bases at St. Louis?
A buddy of mine at Delta for almost 20 years never thought the DFW fiasco would ever happen either, but it did. He was forced to relocate (at his expense I might add) to Atlanta, then shortly after that quit on his 20th year anniversary and back to the DFW area to live. I too never thought TWA or even now AA in St. Louis would ever close as a base, but appears now that anything is possible. I grew up with TWA being the best airline out there, it was tough to watch them go away after using them for over 25 years.

Swamt, it’s the same scope in Article 1C for all 17 TWU stations and there is a letter of agreement protecting STL (and the 16 other LAA TWU fleet stations) from being contracted out trough 09/2018. Of course a lot hinges on this eventual JCBA.

I don’t think the Kasher arbitration has anything barring AA from contracting out STL (100%) or another 25% city, the TWAers would be able bid pursuant to the CBA wherever their seniority can hold. AA closed MCIE in 2010 and contracted out MCI fleet service in BK.

I suspect much of the S80 flying at STL will go to more RJs but perhaps a few 737-8 and Airbus in the mix at peak times.

Josh

 

[Jester]

I too never thought TWA or even now AA in St. Louis would ever close as a base, but appears now that anything is possible. I grew up with TWA being the best airline out there, it was tough to watch them go away after using them for over 25 years.

I recall AA calling STL a "reliever hub" for which I never found to be viable solution, as I don't recall any such beast lasting long. How well did that work for UA in CLE or DL in CVG/MEM? Only time it has any chance of working would be if other hubs were at capacity, but with DL dehubbing DFW in 2005 and scores of gates became available, then STL as a hub would be redundant.

PHX might become that "reliever hub" as LAX would be slot restricted and smaller aircraft such as Express flights would connect passengers through the more available airport. PHL might play the same role with JFK for connecting passengers vs. high yielding O&D passengers.

 

[737823]

I recall AA calling STL a "reliever hub" for which I never found to be viable solution, as I don't recall any such beast lasting long. How well did that work for UA in CLE or DL in CVG/MEM? Only time it has any chance of working would be if other hubs were at capacity, but with DL dehubbing DFW in 2005 and scores of gates became available, then STL as a hub would be redundant.

PHX might become that "reliever hub" as LAX would be slot restricted and smaller aircraft such as Express flights would connect passengers through the more available airport. PHL might play the same role with JFK for connecting passengers vs. high yielding O&D passengers.

DL debubbing DFW was separate from AA effectively dehubbing STL in 11/2003. I say effectively because through 2010 the company would insist STL was still a hub, but similarly until 2010 would not call LAX a hub, it was merely a focus city.

As an aside, other than period of 18 months after the US transaction closed AA didn’t operate out of terminal E, but the opening of int’l terminal D in 2005 and the operational slack the DL dehubbing created certainly facilitated DFW absorbing some of that traffic as the industry slowly recovered in the years following 9/11.

Josh

 

[Jester]

Swamt, it’s the same scope in Article 1C for all 17 TWU stations and there is a letter of agreement protecting STL (and the 16 other LAA TWU fleet stations) from being contracted out trough 09/2018. Of course a lot hinges on this eventual JCBA.

Just curious, what was the minimum number of AA metal flights required after 09/2018 into those 17 stations to be safe from being contracted out?

 

[737823]

ATTACHMENT 1.3 – STATION STAFFING DOS Mr. Robert F. Gless Deputy Director - ATD AA System Coordinator Transport Workers Union of America, AFL–CIO 1791 Hurstview Dr. Hurst, Texas 76054 Dear Robert, This will confirm our understanding reached during the negotiations leading up to the agreement signed on DOS. During these negotiations, we agreed that the following seventeen (17) stations will continue to be staffed with TWU represented employees following the implementation of Article 1(c). Those stations will remain staffed, with TWU represented Fleet Service employees, so long as the annual departures are at or above 2555 from the effective date of this agreement up to the day prior to the amendable date. ATL JFK MIA STL AUS LAS ORD TPA BOS LAX SAT DCA LGA SFO DFW MCO SJU Beyond the amendable date, Article 1(c) will apply. Sincerely, James B. Weel Managing Director Employee Relations Agreed to this date: Robert F. Gless Deputy Director - ATD AA System Coordinator Transport Workers Union of America, AFL–CIO

and

(c) The Company will continue to assign American Airlines TWU represented employees in classifications designated by the Company to all stations wherein such TWU represented employees are assigned currently with 5475 and above annual departures and will staff new cities (those not currently staffed by the TWU) at or above 7300 annual departures. The Company will also re-staff former TWU staffed cities that have been de-staffed once those cities reach 7300 and above annual departures.

http://local502.twuatd.org/wp-content/uploads/file/aa_FleetServiceAgreement.pdf

Josh

 

[Jester]

DL debubbing DFW was separate from AA effectively dehubbing STL in 11/2003. I say effectively because through 2010 the company would insist STL was still a hub, but similarly until 2010 would not call LAX a hub, it was merely a focus city.

9/11 happened and flights were slashed everywhere and the weakest hubs would be the first to go. No doubt if 9/11 happened prior to the AA/TW takeover, the deal would have never happened. However, with the post-9/11 recovery in the years afterwards when the time came to expand flight operations AA didn't run back to STL, but back filled the void left behind in DFW by DL's departure.

 

[737823]

9/11 happened and flights were slashed everywhere and the weakest hubs would be the first to go. No doubt if 9/11 happened prior to the AA/TW takeover, the deal would have never happened. However, with the post-9/11 recovery in the years afterwards when the time came to expand flight operations AA didn't run back to STL, but back filled the void left behind in DFW by DL's departure.

Correct. I just mentioned that because your post seemed to suggest the gates DL vacated in 2005 in terminal E facilitated the STL cuts in 11/2003 and I’m saying that didn’t happen. DFW certainly got a boost in late 2003, and much of the remaining Chataqua service ended up in ORD in April 2010, and resulted in a grievance by the MQ (Envoy/formerly American Eagle) ALPA MEC since Chataqua operated ERJ-145s replaced some Eagle operated ERJs.

Josh

 

[Jester]

"(c) The Company will continue to assign American Airlines TWU represented employees in classifications designated by the Company to all stations wherein such TWU represented employees are assigned currently with 5475 and above annual departures and will staff new cities (those not currently staffed by the TWU) at or above 7300 annual departures. The Company will also re-staff former TWU staffed cities that have been de-staffed once those cities reach 7300 and above annual departures."

The new 5,475 requirement (15 mainline flights a day) could be a little dicey for some stations after 09/2018 if various agreements fail to exempt AA cross-utilized agents having worked mainline US, but counting only AA mainline flights instead.

 

[737823]

"(c) The Company will continue to assign American Airlines TWU represented employees in classifications designated by the Company to all stations wherein such TWU represented employees are assigned currently with 5475 and above annual departures and will staff new cities (those not currently staffed by the TWU) at or above 7300 annual departures. The Company will also re-staff former TWU staffed cities that have been de-staffed once those cities reach 7300 and above annual departures."

The new 5475 requirement (15 mainline flights a day) could be a little dicey for some stations after 09/2018 if various agreements fail to exempt AA cross-utilized agents having worked mainline US, but counting only AA mainline flights instead.

I mentioned this in the fleet thread several times specifically about STL, SJU, and SAT but NYer posted some TWU audited departure stats and Weez said transfers from MIA into STL were cleared.

Josh