What's The Nw Ceo Smoking?

PHL

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Aug 20, 2002
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Seems the CEO, Dick Anderson, isn't presenting a very balanced picture in his recent NWA WorldTraveller column. In fact, it's completely one sided and misleading to a very captive audience. But, lest we forget, most CEO's didn't take any Journalism classes in college.

http://www.nwa.com/corpinfo/aword/

I'm not sure if he was classifying ALL non airline operations as General Aviation(GA) or just the corp. jets/charters/air taxis. Or was he thinking of the small single engine student pilots and flight schools? Nonetheless, he refers to all the non-airline traffic as "private". We're like flies in his little ointment of smooth traffic flow.

He writes "Private aircraft operators also do not pay ticket taxes to fund the FAA. Last year the FAA spent $6 billion operating the Air Traffic Control system in the U.S. This service is free of charge for private aircraft operators....Private aviation operators do pay a fuel excise tax, as do all commercial airlines – but that is about the extent of private aviation’s funding for airports. "

Well, sort of Dick. Yes, private aircraft operators pay fuel taxes, which in part fund airport operations. Private aircraft operators also pay landing fees and ramp fees. These are in proportion to the services they receive. How many of you airilne pilots started out in small flight schools, or even academies, across the country. How does this article sit with you?

Dick goes on to write: "At NWA, we believe an airport’s operating costs should be borne by all who use them, including those who travel by private aircraft. As the system works today, you, the commercial airline passenger, are subsidizing private aircraft ownership. This is not right."

False again. I, like many private airplane operators, do *NOT* fly into airports served by any airline. I don't taxi up to gate B24, walk into the terminal and use any of the terminal services. I use the ILS to approach and the runway pavement to land, and then park at an out of the way facility where I pay them for services. Ramp fee, parking fee, etc. They, in turn, are paying the airport fees to operate. The airport, in turn, uses them for improvements. See, we're all paying our part.

Understand Dick, of the 3000+ public use airports across the country, less than 10% are served by mainline service of a scheduled carrier. So, explain to me, Dick, how the pilot at his 1500' runway in Lunchmeat, Kansas is going to get in your way and why he should contribute to your failing cost structure. Stop pointing fingers and face the facts that the industry has changed and the legacy carriers, like you, can't react quickly enough. If anything, Dick, the private carriers are doing you a favor by funnelling traffic to the outlying airports closer to where their customers need to be anyway - airports that are not served by any airline. This way you can pad your schedules with more flights than can realistically be handled by the local controllers.

If he hasn't been contacted already, Dick Anderson should expect a scathing letter from the Aircraft Owners and Pilot Association (AOPA) to make sure he gets the full picture. But I urge anyone close to his office to pass this onto him for yet another viewpoint.
 
Phl,
Airlines pay landing fee's also. Here's the point. A G-5 takes off from any NYC area airport flying one rich SOB to the west coast. Meanwhile, a pax carrier takes off from another airport in the area bound for the west coast with 300 pax, each coughing up an average of $200 each which is taxed at approx 25%. Both jets recieve identical levels of service from the Federal government. Both paid for landing fee's (although the pax jet paid SIGNIFICANTLY more for that landing since it's based on weight). Additionally the pax helped support the airport by purchasing food in the terminal which of course allows the airport to charge high rent rates to the vendors. But when it comes paying for air traffic control, the airline paid $1500 while the rich SOB paid NOTHING. Is that fair? Is it fair for a pax jet with 100 pax to pay less than a 300 pax jet? I'm all for GA. Maybe a "training exemption" is in order, but in actuality, the airlines are indirectly subsidizing rich SOB's and fractional jet operations. BTW, some airline pilots got their hours serving their country :D
 
You just don't get it do you? When did you utilize GA recently? We will assume that when you learned to fly, you just magically built up your hours on the commercial carriers.

GA has access to these airports and the FBO's at the airports pay the fee for improvements to their facilities. The passengers don't use the actual airport facility, they use the FBO. The cities make enough money on flowage fees from the fuel purchases. And by the way, we pay for landing charges at these airports too. GA and commercial aviation are two different areas. And the mean SOB that owns the G5 you referred to, might just be the same person that owns your airline, insurance company, house ware supplier, cable company, fuel supplier and the likes. At least we are flying the people who know how to keep their airplanes out of bankruptcy.
 
Or are at least able to keep their personal finances out of the bankruptcy a'la Enron.

I've worked on both the commercial and the GA sides of the field long enough to know that the airlines have been paying a disproportinate share of the cost of the ATC system. Now they don't want to any more and that makes them the bad guys? Maybe when those folks in the G5 have to shoulder some of the burden they'll use those Senators and Congressmen they bought and paid for to try to fix the system.
 
Hey here is an idea!
Let's tax private cars just as much as big trucks and busses pay to use the highways. They use the same amount of the infrastructure (almost) as the big guys. I guess that is why this is America.
 
If we apply that logic then the airlines should pay exactly the same per departure as their GA counterparts - unless airliners cause more 'wear and tear' to the ATC system, which they don't.
 
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The rich SOB flying the private jet is paying through the nose for his charter. Why should he care what percentage is going to the operator's profit and costs (including fuel, ramp, FBO, pilot salaries and airport fees). The fact is that those fees are built into his hourly/fractional costs. If the feds decide to tax the charters more, I don't think the rich SOB is going to notice an additional $100, $200 or even $500 price increase.

But that's beside the point. Dick presented a very one sided, non objective piece trying to make the general public, who in most cases are very ignorant of issues about general aviation(which includes training through fractionals). Phil Boyer (AOPA president) and he apparently have a meeting to discuss the whole issue.
 
Well, one-sided, non-objective monologues are what passes for communication with Richard Anderson and company. A fact which I'm sure AOPA will learn soon enough. If he lets the other party talk too (but doesn't listen, of course) then he calls it a negotiation.
 
How about this--any plane in commercial service pays a flat fee per departure for ATC. That way the G-5 gets the same level of service and same fee. Donald Trump won't notice the cost....
 
Whadayano said:
How about this--any plane in commercial service pays a flat fee per departure for ATC. That way the G-5 gets the same level of service and same fee. Donald Trump won't notice the cost....
BINGO, and that goes for 717, 737, and A320's vs 777'2 A330's and 747's. The legacy carriers can no longer afford to subsidize everyone else. It's the govenment that's choking the golden goose. Fee for departure. Pay for the service you get. besides, a smaller supply of ready willing and marginally able pilots flying RJ's for 18 bucks an hour would be a GOOD thing. Maybe, just maybe, your delays at (insert favorite airport here..) will be mitigated if it is no longer economically advantagious to fly 10 RJ flights in a certain city pair vs 3 A320's.
 
AA191 said:
You just don't get it do you? When did you utilize GA recently? We will assume that when you learned to fly, you just magically built up your hours on the commercial carriers.

GA has access to these airports and the FBO's at the airports pay the fee for improvements to their facilities. The passengers don't use the actual airport facility, they use the FBO. The cities make enough money on flowage fees from the fuel purchases. And by the way, we pay for landing charges at these airports too. GA and commercial aviation are two different areas. And the mean SOB that owns the G5 you referred to, might just be the same person that owns your airline, insurance company, house ware supplier, cable company, fuel supplier and the likes. At least we are flying the people who know how to keep their airplanes out of bankruptcy.
RTFP AA191, I cleary insinuated in the last sentance of my post my source of most of my hours. A couple points. Many companies now book fractional jets because they are CHEAPER when they are transporting several people. Part of the reason is the airlines are, on average, having it's tickets jacked up by 28% for TAXES. More than cigarettes, more than booze. If it is truely to fund the ATC system, then ALL users should pay for that service. The government should be acting as a charity, ESPECIALLY when it is taking from mom and pop kettle, to GIVE to billionaires like Sen John Corzine (D-NJ). Less fractional jets mean bigger, more efficient commercial jets (meaning lower fares and better service for consumers, ALL consumers, not just the "CEO's")
 
Busdrvr -

The GA business will not be getting smaller, but larger. If you really took a close look at the private jet business, you would see that it has become much more mainstream than most people think it has. For instance - that local car dealership you bought your car from has fractional time, charters or owns their own fleet of aircraft. That local farmer that sells eggs and milk owns his own Citation Jet. As the airlines continue to provide poor on-board service and less frequency in many markets, the GA business will continue to thrive. The commercial carriers are one of our biggest promoters - indirectly of course. We see such a mix of people that charter, buy fractional and outright own their own jets. This industry also employs a good amount of your workforce that has been furloughed, or let go. Will we see you any time soon? Enjoy your landing rights at Washington National.
 
The frac jet market will get larger until they start paying their fair share. Airline pax should NOT be subsidizing frac jets, pure and simple. In addition, the lax security at FBO's and the size and speed of some "small jets" make them an emerging security risk.

"Will we see you any time soon? Enjoy your landing rights at Washington National."

I have too much pride and too many mouths to feed. Enjoy your substandard pay, beeper, and constant a$$ kissing....
 

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