Westjet To U.s. Cities

[FrugalFlyerv2.0]

I know the article below should have been posted in the foreign airlines section, but that's a graveyard.

Anyways, the Toronto Star had a story today stating that Westjet will begin service from the Great White North to the U.S.A. Only tourist destinations for now (Florida, PHX, California).

If Westjet (a LCC) can do transborder service, is there any possibility of SW serving Canada?

I know YYZ is congested, but there is enough money to be made at YYZ that even with the extra costs Westjet has decided to dismantle its Hamilton hub (~30 miles away) and move to YYZ. I'm sure SW could get a sweet deal worked out with the operators of Hamilton airport to begin service.

Comments anyone?

____________________________

The Toronto Star
Feb. 5, 2004

WestJet expands to U.S. cities
Also increases domestic flights
Air Canada swaps aircraft at Zip


CALGARY—WestJet Airlines will begin flying to U.S. destinations in October in a further expansion of the discount carrier's operations, which have been almost entirely within Canada.

The Calgary-based company said yesterday it will begin flying to Los Angeles, as well as the Florida destinations of Ft. Lauderdale and Orlando. Seasonal service will include trips to Phoenix, Ariz., and Palm Springs, Calif.

WestJet's president and CEO, Clive Beddoe, said "beyond the enhancements we are making to our domestic schedule, the timing is now ideal for WestJet to begin transborder service."

"Canadians have been asking WestJet to provide our low fares and unique service into the United States for many years," he said in a statement. "We are now at a stage in our growth where transborder service is a prudent, logical next step."

The U.S. routes are clearly aimed at the tourist market, providing travellers access to cruise-ship markets in Florida, theme parks and the warm weather of California and golf and sun destinations of Arizona.

"They're flying to sun-spot destinations, so they're not competing with Air Canada, which flies to 50 some destinations in the U.S., but that's primarily business traffic," said analyst Rick Erickson of Airline Policy Analysts in Calgary.

Details of schedules for U.S. routes will be provided "in the coming weeks, pending airport negotiations," WestJet said.

WestJet will also add another 120 non-stop flights per week this summer throughout its domestic network, including seven flights per week from Ottawa to Vancouver and seven return flights between those two cities. The airline will also expand service between Saskatoon and Vancouver, Toronto and Ottawa and Calgary and Halifax.

The domestic moves will intensify competition with rivals Air Canada and Jetsgo.

Yesterday, restructuring Air Canada announced it is replacing the fleet at its Calgary-based Zip discount carrier with new, more fuel-efficient jets and plans to expand Zip's operations to compete more aggressively in the low-cost market.

The airline said it will transfer 20 Airbus A319 aircraft to Zip to replace its existing fleet of 12 Boeing 737-200s over the course of 2004.

"This is a further step in restructuring Air Canada to become a more competitive airline by rationalizing the fleet to achieve increased cost efficiencies through the retirement of older, less efficient aircraft," president and chief executive Robert Milton said.

canadian press

 

[funguy2]

Hamilton (a decent sized city itself) is at the extreme western edge of of the Toronto Metro area. YYZ is also west of Toronto, but much more central than Hamilton. Furthermore, the freeways from Toronto to Hamilton are very congested... thus Hamilton may not really be an option for a lot of folks in Toronto.... that was the problem.

WestJets entry to the USA was bound to happen. The specific routes should be interesting.

 

[downline7]

Im so glad that WestJet is doing so well, a formidable competitor to Air Canada. Since theyre known as the "jetBlue of the North" I always thought itd be a good idea if WJ and JB codeshared or whatever on YYZ-JFK so that pax from each airline could have access to each others markets and connect. Since you clear US Immigration in YYZ, WJ could pull right up to T6 at JFK.

Just my thought.

 

[FrugalFlyerv2.0]

Hamilton (a decent sized city itself) is at the extreme western edge of of the Toronto Metro area. YYZ is also west of Toronto, but much more central than Hamilton. Furthermore, the freeways from Toronto to Hamilton are very congested... thus Hamilton may not really be an option for a lot of folks in Toronto.... that was the problem.

WestJets entry to the USA was bound to happen. The specific routes should be interesting.

Granted, the ariport at Hamilton is not is the greatest of locations, however access to it has improved in the last 3-5 years. When Westjet set up show there, people would drive to Hamilton from as far away as London (YXU; ~80 miles) to get a reasonable fare out west or east. I think that likewise should SW offer a decent fare from Hamilton to MDW or BWI for example, the traffic would be there.

I'm just a little surprised that with the Canada-USA open skies agreement and given the ~5 million population of the Greater Toronto Area that SW (or another US-baed LCC has not entered the market). Amd more importantly, I haven't checked trans-border fares out of YYZ in a while, but some of the prices AC was charging from YYZ to US were close to what they charge for some trans-atlantic routes - so there certainly is $ int the YYZ-USA markets.

 

[FrugalFlyerv2.0]

Im so glad that WestJet is doing so well, a formidable competitor to Air Canada. Since theyre known as the "jetBlue of the North" I always thought itd be a good idea if WJ and JB codeshared or whatever on YYZ-JFK so that pax from each airline could have access to each others markets and connect. Since you clear US Immigration in YYZ, WJ could pull right up to T6 at JFK.

Just my thought.

I know that airlines like SW like to keep things simple, but how much extra cost would a SW-Westjet alliance /codeshare (or Jetblue-Westjet alliance) really cost?

Ticketing / marketing agreements etc. should not take more than a few strokes of the computer keyboard? No need to hire any extra personell as Westjet people could handle a SW jet in Calgary and SW could turn a Westjet 737 in PHX, for example. I don't know if crew scheduling would be a problem because eventhough the filghts would be 'international' there would be no need for extended layovers. The only complexity I see is perhaps a need to dedicate a few aircraft for the transborder routes (in case of unforseen problems?).

 

[SWAFA30]

The management team here at Southwest are repeatedly asked if and when the company will beging international/transborder Candian flights. The answer that comes back is always the same. There are still many markets here in the U.S. that Southwest would prefer to devote their resources tobefore international markets would be persued. Given the fact that they are born of the same creative minspring(David Neeleman) I would think that WestJet and jetBlue would be a better match. jetBlue has proven to be more willing to break away from the typical LCC business model.

 

[downline7]

The management team here at Southwest are repeatedly asked if and when the company will beging international/transborder Candian flights. The answer that comes back is always the same. There are still many markets here in the U.S. that Southwest would prefer to devote their resources tobefore international markets would be persued. Given the fact that they are born of the same creative minspring(David Neeleman) I would think that WestJet and jetBlue would be a better match. jetBlue has proven to be more willing to break away from the typical LCC business model.

Well said SWAFA30.

I also have always thought that WJ and JB are a good match because the service is similar between the two airlines. As well, WJ offers the same DIRECTV programming jetBlue does (though Im not sure if all their aircrafts have DIRECTV and if they charge for it or not).

DN has mentioned many times that he wants to enter the Canadian market. If JB starts a codeshare with WJ, lets say NYC-YYZ, then that will give JB exposure in Canada (more then the frugal pax who know about JB and fly on JB out of BUF, SEA, and BTV) and vice versa. With this exposure, JB might have more of a proverbial foot-in-the-door when the time does come to serve Canada.

The problem with Canadian commercial aviation, however, is the extensive amount of taxes and fees that are added to the cost of a ticket. Wasnt it WestJet that had that CDN$5 fare sale a long time ago to prove this same point because in the end, pax ended up paying something like CDN$75-80 after all the associated taxes and fees had been applied?

 

[KCFlyer]

jetBlue has proven to be more willing to break away from the typical LCC business model.

Heck...lately jetblue has been breaking away from their own business plane in many different ways.

 

[mga707]

If you read the article carefully, nowhere in it does it say that all of the upcoming transborder service will be from YYZ. It would seem a lot more logical for the LAX/PSP/PHX service to be from YVR. I'd even guess that the PSP service may even be a 'tag' on one of the other two cities.
Anyone know for sure, of do the just have to wait for the details "in the coming weeks", as the article states?

 

[SWAFA30]

Heck...lately jetblue has been breaking away from their own business plane in many different ways.

No disrespect meant to Mr. Neeleman. His accomplishments speak for themselves. How many people can say they have been involved with not just one but three successful airline startups? However, the senior management who worked with him during his brief tenure at WN have all cited his inability to focus as one of the main reasons he left the company. Of course, if he had stayed at Southwest, there might not have ever been a WestJet or a JetBlue and then what would we and our neighbors to the north have had to talk about for the past 4 or 5 years??

 

[FrugalFlyerv2.0]

The problem with Canadian commercial aviation, however, is the extensive amount of taxes and fees that are added to the cost of a ticket. Wasnt it WestJet that had that CDN$5 fare sale a long time ago to prove this same point because in the end, pax ended up paying something like CDN$75-80 after all the associated taxes and fees had been applied?

I don't think taxes and fees are too much different than in USA.

Here's what's added to the regular airfare in Canada:

1) Airport improvement fee (varies from $2-$15, depending on what airport you travel to)
2) NavCan surcharge (NavCan is the private ATC provider; rates vary for domestic & international flights)
3) GST (goods & services tax)
4) Security Fee (in effect after 9/11)

On my last AC ticket of $1101 I paid $146.71 in taxes/fees (~13%) for a grand total of $1247.71 (reading the fine print a $15 fuel surcharge was already a part of the base fare).

 

[FrugalFlyerv2.0]

Given the fact that they are born of the same creative minspring(David Neeleman) I would think that WestJet and jetBlue would be a better match. jetBlue has proven to be more willing to break away from the typical LCC business model.

I don't know if this is true or not, but I have heard that after Mr. Neeleman helped create/set up WJ he was told to not let the door hit him on the way out. However, both parties will say that they departed on amicable terms, etc, etc, etc.

 

[funguy2]

The other interesting thing about ("a-boot", LOL) the Canadian marketplace is that Charter Carriers/Vacation Packagers make up a larger percentage of the entire market than in the USA. Perhaps due to the relatively small population base and probably more distinct seasonality. They tend to offer great fares and go where pax want to go when they want to go... Air Transat and Skyservice come to mind. I know there have been several carriers in past as well. They generally provide service to sunspots in the winter and Europe in the summer, and usually have some domestic charters as well.

At any rate, these companies would also be competition to any transborder LCC.

 

[SWAFA30]

I don't know if this is true or not, but I have heard that after Mr. Neeleman helped create/set up WJ he was told to not let the door hit him on the way out. However, both parties will say that they departed on amicable terms, etc, etc, etc.

I guess they must have mended fences. Doesn't Neeleman/jetBlue own the LiveTV product that WestJet is currently installing it their 73G fleet? I would think if there was still bad blood he would not have given them access to the technology.

 

[KCFlyer]

I guess they must have mended fences. Doesn't Neeleman/jetBlue own the LiveTV product that WestJet is currently installing it their 73G fleet? I would think if there was still bad blood he would not have given them access to the technology.

Then again, when an airline gets into the TV business, it's not smart business to refuse to sell to a customer...any customer.