Welcome to the newest division of LCC...

[safety stud]

We have all had to come to grips with the arbitrators ruling. As many of you have read all the postings, the line has been drawn. It's now East Pilots vs West Pilots... with the rest of the labor groups in the middle.

It must be apparent to all reading the posts, there will be a harsh response from the east. Whether U can survive this will remain to be seen. I've heard pilots say they would rather bring the company down than have to deal with the arbitrators ruling. As to the ruling itself. It's implemintation is based on a merged contract with both sides (U/AWA). That said...

East would never vote on a contract to merge both parties.

Where does that leave the airline?

1. Without a merged contract from the pilot group there will be no capability of operating under one certificate.

2. Without said certificate, synergy, as DP puts it can't be realized. Ergo loss of fincancial stability with our creditors.

3. Without said creditors, implemintation of future aircraft purchases would be curtailed or lossed.

4. Loss of said aircraft means less capacity. Capacity of which has been brought down to unheard of levels. Even at the worst of times.

5. Loss of said capacity means loss of revenue.

6. Loss of revenue means I may no longer get a paycheck...

7. Loss of my paycheck... Means....

8. Now you have ME to deal with...

True, airplanes don't fly without pilots. But they can't fly without flight attendants either. Neither can a Captain pull off the gate without a A/C maintenence logbook. And how about the reservationist who might book a 757 to 500 people... or maybe a ramper who fill an a/c with LAX bags when it's going to BOS.

Yea, I can see the steam rising above the heads of everyone effected.

East vs. West...
Hadfields vs. McCoys...
Crossin the Mason Dixon line...

NEVER, and I mean NEVER, do you mess with another persons paycheck...


Just my opinion...

 

[Fly4Free]

what a shame.

 

[X-U]

Even before Nicolau's award, I had a suspicion that the true intention has never been to merge the two companies, but to pretty up the balance sheet and sell each off in seperate transactions. Management's lack of focus toward running/merging the two companies, lack of any urgency to get joint contracts for the labor groups... Even the DL merger could have been a way to "shop" HP to post-bankruptcy DL. With Nicolau's decision, and now the US pilots threatening to bolt ALPA and bog down even further the negotiations for a joint contract, I think the result will be two more acquisitions/mergers: HP sold to DL, and US sold to UA or NW.

 

[Fly4Free]

okay, please let me know if I understand the pilot contract proposal correctly.

1) East pilots / seniority
then
2) West pilots / seniority
infront of
3) Furloughed / recalled pilots who may have started before west employees but get put after them.


This, imo if accurate, may seem 1/2 fair. Maybe that's the problem. Someone who gets "laid off" due to economic reasons technically no longer works for the company for that time frame, but when they come back, they restart their start date, right? That's what they say where I work. If we move to another department, we lose our seniority.

Is this not the case for pilots? Please bear with me, I am not used to union politics. I know merging a workforce is a pain in the ass, based on looking at what's going here.

 

[john john]

okay, please let me know if I understand the pilot contract proposal correctly.

1) East pilots / seniority
then
2) West pilots / seniority
infront of
3) Furloughed / recalled pilots who may have started before west employees but get put after them.
This, imo if accurate, may seem 1/2 fair. Maybe that's the problem. Someone who gets "laid off" due to economic reasons technically no longer works for the company for that time frame, but when they come back, they restart their start date, right? That's what they say where I work. If we move to another department, we lose our seniority.

Is this not the case for pilots? Please bear with me, I am not used to union politics. I know merging a workforce is a pain in the ass, based on looking at what's going here.

Are you in the Passengers Service Group? If so you have DOH seniority within your class and craft. You have recall rights if you are furloughed for (4) years. The pilot group is the only union on the property that has lifelong recall rights. DUDE read your contract

 

[phasersonstun2]

Even before Nicolau's award, I had a suspicion that the true intention has never been to merge the two companies, but to pretty up the balance sheet and sell each off in seperate transactions. Management's lack of focus toward running/merging the two companies, lack of any urgency to get joint contracts for the labor groups... Even the DL merger could have been a way to "shop" HP to post-bankruptcy DL. With Nicolau's decision, and now the US pilots threatening to bolt ALPA and bog down even further the negotiations for a joint contract, I think the result will be two more acquisitions/mergers: HP sold to DL, and US sold to UA or NW.

Not out of the question...

and UAL would STAPLE

 

[freedom]

We have all had to come to grips with the arbitrators ruling. As many of you have read all the postings, the line has been drawn. It's now East Pilots vs West Pilots... with the rest of the labor groups in the middle.

It must be apparent to all reading the posts, there will be a harsh response from the east. Whether U can survive this will remain to be seen. I've heard pilots say they would rather bring the company down than have to deal with the arbitrators ruling. As to the ruling itself. It's implemintation is based on a merged contract with both sides (U/AWA). That said...

East would never vote on a contract to merge both parties.

Where does that leave the airline?

1. Without a merged contract from the pilot group there will be no capability of operating under one certificate.

2. Without said certificate, synergy, as DP puts it can't be realized. Ergo loss of fincancial stability with our creditors.

3. Without said creditors, implemintation of future aircraft purchases would be curtailed or lossed.

4. Loss of said aircraft means less capacity. Capacity of which has been brought down to unheard of levels. Even at the worst of times.

5. Loss of said capacity means loss of revenue.

6. Loss of revenue means I may no longer get a paycheck...

7. Loss of my paycheck... Means....

8. Now you have ME to deal with...

True, airplanes don't fly without pilots. But they can't fly without flight attendants either. Neither can a Captain pull off the gate without a A/C maintenence logbook. And how about the reservationist who might book a 757 to 500 people... or maybe a ramper who fill an a/c with LAX bags when it's going to BOS.

Yea, I can see the steam rising above the heads of everyone effected.

East vs. West...
Hadfields vs. McCoys...
Crossin the Mason Dixon line...

NEVER, and I mean NEVER, do you mess with another persons paycheck...
Just my opinion...

i bet HQ is celebrating right now , the longer you go without a new contract the more money their going to save , they are going to try and drag out your dispute for YEARS .... as i see it you have maybe one chance and that's to appeal arbitration .

The company won't fall down because the East pilots are unhappy , now that their hands are bound the company will simply terminate anyone who doesn't do their job.

 

[Mike]

i bet HQ is celebrating right now , the longer you go without a new contract the more money their going to save , they are going to try and drag out your dispute for YEARS .... as i see it you have maybe one chance and that's to appeal arbitration .

The company won't fall down because the East pilots are unhappy , now that their hands are bound the company will simply terminate anyone who doesn't do their job.

Yep..I had the displeasure of being at Atlas/Polar during the Seniority intergration. The lists were combined but they remain on seperate certificates. Polar has furloughed and Atlas is hiring. Polar pilots remain on the street while the cheaper operation(Atlas)
gets new routes and new pilots. A Mgt. dream come true!

 

[missthe727]

Yep..I had the displeasure of being at Atlas/Polar during the Seniority intergration. The lists were combined but they remain on seperate certificates. Polar has furloughed and Atlas is hiring. Polar pilots remain on the street while the cheaper operation(Atlas)
gets new routes and new pilots. A Mgt. dream come true!

However in this case, the East pilots are paid 15 bucks an hour less than the west...so we will get the new routes and new pilots....just my opinion.

 

[UWCactus]

This between the union and the pilots. The company honored the unions request to stand clear of the seniority case. The company would have wanted a different outcome on this.

 

[Mike]

However in this case, the East pilots are paid 15 bucks an hour less than the west...so we will get the new routes and new pilots....just my opinion.

YEs..You are correct. Watch and see. Jerry Glass must be giddy at this time.

 

[SKY HIGH]

The company won't fall down because the East pilots are unhappy , now that their hands are bound the company will simply terminate anyone who doesn't do their job.

sky high states: Taxiing the aircraft, 5 miles an hour is DOING YOUR JOB, Right?


only stating opinions

 

[Atlantic]

AAA can opperate under a single Part 121 certificate with two seperate pilot groups.

 

[EMBFA]

Are you in the Passengers Service Group? If so you have DOH seniority within your class and craft. You have recall rights if you are furloughed for (4) years. The pilot group is the only union on the property that has lifelong recall rights. DUDE read your contract

AFA (east) has lifelong recall rights.

 

[BoeingBoy]

However in this case, the East pilots are paid 15 bucks an hour less than the west...so we will get the new routes and new pilots....just my opinion.

Except that it looks like any new routes will be primarily international on 757 and larger aircraft. Which side has lower pay rates then........

Jim