United FA's meet the Bus...

[dapoes]

Hows that saying go?

Elections have consequences?
and
What union protection?

AFA's Refusal to Allow UA Cross-over to Staff CO

Sam Risoli
Senior Vice President
Inflight Services

July 12, 2011

To all Flight Attendants,

As we announced in the spring, based on current flying projections the United subsidiary may have roughly 1,800 excess flight attendants when the current voluntary furlough ends March 2, 2012.

At the same time, the Continental subsidiary needs to add approximately 900 flight attendants to staff aircraft the Continental subsidiary ordered prior to the merger. Those aircraft will be delivered next year, so we must plan for the staffing now. Our collective bargaining agreements restrict flight attendants to working flights on their own subsidiary’s aircraft.

We are committed to negotiating a fair joint collective bargaining agreement that covers the combined United and Continental flight attendants. When that is complete, we don’t expect to have a staffing imbalance, but we cannot predict how long it will take to negotiate that agreement and we need to begin the training process very soon. United proposed the voluntary “cross-over” program to address this potential staffing imbalance in a mutually beneficial way.

Under the voluntary “cross-over” program, subsidiary United flight attendants could voluntarily transfer to the Continental subsidiary. These flight attendants would join Continental at the bottom of the current Continental seniority list, but also retain and accrue their United seniority for purposes of integration of all flight attendants on a single seniority list. They would also receive CO rates of pay based on their current seniority. The idea was to offer certain advantages to interested United flight attendants with an opportunity to work without risk of involuntary furlough.

I thought it made sense to offer this opportunity to our current flight attendants first, before we fill the Continental vacancies externally. This approach is also consistent with the approach we have taken with other work groups including pilots and mechanics. Over the last month, I heard positive feedback from many of you, and some of you told me that you would be interested in transferring if given the chance.

I am disappointed to report to you that AFA rejected this cross-over proposal. Thus, we will not be able to offer the program, and we will immediately move to hire and train new Continental flight attendants from outside the company.

We will continue to make it our priority to let you know about changes and issues that impact you. Should you have any questions, please contact your Base Management.

Sincerely,
Sam

As mentioned by another on FB:

Remember this next time a unionist tries to talk about job security. I mean, have you ever heard of a union forcing management to lay off the very employees that union represents? This is the freaking twilight zone... And sadly, it's exactly the sort of thing we've come to expect.

 

[dapoes]

Unlike AFA, ALPA Refuses to Throw its Members Under the Bus and Accepts the Companies Offer of Cross Utilization

 

[laura62]

You put up a ridiculous quote from a Facebook imbecile to back up your ignorant comments? Maybe you work for UA/CO as a F/A and voted for IAM. I wouldn't be surprised, but really, your ignorance is glaring. This is the sort of thing I have come to expect from many (bitter) IAM supporters.
Is this Facebook person some sort of fortune teller who knows that there will be 'forced layoffs?' Really? This person (and you) is oblivious of the agreement AFA has in place with UA as to furloughs.
*Voluntary furloughs are offered first and there hasn't been a problem getting enough people to take one.
* The foreign nationals (those not on the seniority list) at BKK and SIN have to go.
*There hasn't been an involuntary furlough of a UA flight attendant in almost 10 years.
A poll was taken with over 2,000 F/As' participating and 90% of those participating said NO to the cross-over.
And those are facts-not fortune telling.

 

[dapoes]

Really? A poll of 2000 flight determined that 900 can hit the road? Thats a lovely union brotherhood you belong to. I think it's sad that all those who fight for a union representation wind up getting shafted by the very low life's they voted for. But that's what happens when you get in bed with such low life's.

And for the record I don't work for either of those airlines and never will.

 

[IORFA]

If you understood english, the person just said that the foreign nationals go before any AFA furloughs. Even before that UA has to offer "Voluntary Leaves". In the past the person said they are highly subscribed to. 900 is a small number to account for. I am sure there are other ways to trim payroll, like monthly bid leaves and job sharing, I.e. part time programs. If you don't even work for wither of the 2 companies, why do you care? And why don't you educate yourself before you open your mouth and pollinate the web with your misinformation?

 

[dapoes]

If you understood english, the person just said that the foreign nationals go before any AFA furloughs. Even before that UA has to offer "Voluntary Leaves". In the past the person said they are highly subscribed to. 900 is a small number to account for. I am sure there are other ways to trim payroll, like monthly bid leaves and job sharing, I.e. part time programs. If you don't even work for wither of the 2 companies, why do you care? And why don't you educate yourself before you open your mouth and pollinate the web with your misinformation?

I posted to just to show the irony. How union members get tossed under the bus so freely by the people who are "supposed" to protect them. Shows how little that union contract is worth.

 

[IORFA]

But you haven't shown where the union members are going to be thrown under the bus. Others have shown you the multitude of voluntary options that would be available before anyone would potentially be furloughed, and that doesn't take into account having to get rid of the foreign nationals that are NOT on the seniority list. Problem is that there is no bus and AFA members are not under it. You just can't see that. Maybe you should do some research and listen to people before you make up false accusations. That is much harder, I know.

 

[JAMAKE1]

Unlike AFA, ALPA Refuses to Throw its Members Under the Bus and Accepts the Companies Offer of Cross Utilization

Whoever you are: You probably shouldn't post inflammatory threads about a subject in which have absolutely no inkling about. The cross-over proposal that was presented to ALPA was not the same proposal that was presented to AFA. Why would any pre-merger UA flight attendant give up their seniority to "cross-over" to Continental only to be placed at the bottom of CO's seniority list? The proposal that the company presented to UA-ALPA, offered UA pilots seniority protections, yet the proposal that was presented to AFA did not.

Furthermore, you don't work for either company, but then come on here and post a thread about how AFA is throwing its membership under the bus. Just reading your signature line, you immediately lost all credibility with me. But just for future reference, may I suggest that before you go about posting a provocative thread about a subject in which know absolutely nothing about...and yet, have failed to provide any critical analysis of the reasons behind the decisions that were made with regard to the cross-over agreement...that you do a little research and arm yourself with some facts. Otherwise, you sound like a Fox News report.

Just for the record, you have no idea what you're talking about and you have no credibility.

 

[laura62]

And for the record I don't work for either of those airlines and never will.

You're right.
We hire people who can reason.
Thank God.

 

[Jim Lively]

I posted to just to show the irony. How union members get tossed under the bus so freely by the people who are "supposed" to protect them. Shows how little that union contract is worth.

Dapoes,
I agree with you. You have to remember that the Union is a business, and as a business the way they get money it from members dues. The union will do everything in it's power to keep as many members on the property. Which is dollars to them. I don't understand why the FA's on leave/furlough who want to come back don't just go to CO and interview. They would still have recall rights at UA.

 

[Jim Lively]

Why would any pre-merger UA flight attendant give up their seniority to "cross-over" to Continental only to be placed at the bottom of CO's seniority list? The proposal that the company presented to UA-ALPA, offered UA pilots seniority protections, yet the proposal that was presented to AFA did not.

JAMAKE1,

Perhaps you should read more carefully before you jump in. It seems to me that seniority is protected, unless the memo on this thread was just made up by someone and is in fact not what was offered.

"These flight attendants would join Continental at the bottom of the current Continental seniority list, but also retain and accrue their United seniority for purposes of integration of all flight attendants on a single seniority list."

 

[PilotX]

JAMAKE1,

Perhaps you should read more carefully before you jump in. It seems to me that seniority is protected, unless the memo on this thread was just made up by someone and is in fact not what was offered.

"These flight attendants would join Continental at the bottom of the current Continental seniority list, but also retain and accrue their United seniority for purposes of integration of all flight attendants on a single seniority list."

The questin is why would anybody want to basically "start over" at the bottom of the seniority list? Talking to a few UA FA's the only ones considering it are the ones that live in Houston. Not a very populat idea.

 

[Jim Lively]

The questin is why would anybody want to basically "start over" at the bottom of the seniority list? Talking to a few UA FA's the only ones considering it are the ones that live in Houston. Not a very populat idea.

What I don't think you understand is that when it's all said and done the FA's that choose to, can go back to the UA side before the final list is put together. So why not have some money coming in while a new contract is negotiated. They did this same thing with the pilots and they too will have the ability to go back to the UA list prior to the final list. Seems to me that a union is there to protect and keep their employees ( after all the union is a business) working, must not be the case with the AFA.

Jim

 

[laura62]

Whoever you are: You probably shouldn't post inflammatory threads about a subject in which have absolutely no inkling about. The cross-over proposal that was presented to ALPA was not the same proposal that was presented to AFA. Why would any pre-merger UA flight attendant give up their seniority to "cross-over" to Continental only to be placed at the bottom of CO's seniority list? The proposal that the company presented to UA-ALPA, offered UA pilots seniority protections, yet the proposal that was presented to AFA did not.

Furthermore, you don't work for either company, but then come on here and post a thread about how AFA is throwing its membership under the bus. Just reading your signature line, you immediately lost all credibility with me. But just for future reference, may I suggest that before you go about posting a provocative thread about a subject in which know absolutely nothing about...and yet, have failed to provide any critical analysis of the reasons behind the decisions that were made with regard to the cross-over agreement...that you do a little research and arm yourself with some facts. Otherwise, you sound like a Fox News report.

Just for the record, you have no idea what you're talking about and you have no credibility.

 

[laura62]

Something for Dapos to ponder as he wallows in his ignorance of AFA and the UA/AFA contract ( I don't see any bus here);

October 13, 2011
Flight Attendants at Continental Micronesia (CMI), represented by the Association of Flight Attendants (AFA) have announced they have reached a “Bridge Agreement” with their management. CMI Flight Attendants will be offered a one-time irrevocable transfer to Continental subsidiary Domestic operation at either Houston or Newark, to be placed at the bottom of the Continental seniority list. The effective date of this transfer is October 18, 2011 for all CMI Flight Attendants electing to exercise this option.

Earlier this year, United management offered a similar Cross-Over Program to United Flight Attendants. The United Master Executive Council (MEC) reviewed and debated the proposal from management and unanimously agreed that it had no benefit for United Flight Attendants. Survey results and input from our Membership overwhelmingly supported the decision not to negotiate a hiring agreement for the Continental subsidiary that would place United Flight Attendants at the bottom of their seniority list.

Our Contract contains comprehensive provisions for addressing an overstaffing situation through our Voluntary Furlough program, which protect seniority, maintains benefits and protects jobs. Under our Contract you maintain seniority accrual, health care and on-line pass travel benefits as if on active status.

Unlike the Cross-Over Program management proposed to United Flight Attendants, our Voluntary Furlough language has a definitive end date with the right of return to your active Domicile; as well as the ability to return to work early through a hardship request. These are two key protections in our Contract language that are omitted from any Cross-Over Program proposed by management.

The Continental Micronesia MEC has agreed to offer this option to their Flight Attendants because input from CMI Flight Attendant’s indicates an interest in the program. Additionally, CMI has only one base in Guam and there is no path for relief when the company schedule creates an overstaffing situation, unlike there is for United Flight Attendants. While likely not an attractive option for many CMI Flight Attendants, this offer may provide relief to some.

Flight Attendants from CMI who accept the agreement and transfer to Continental, will be placed at the bottom of the Continental seniority list for the duration of their transfer. The CMI Flight Attendants will preserve their current CMI seniority for the AFA seniority integration process, which maintains Flight Attendants’ bidding seniority on the merged seniority list. Their accrued seniority from CMI will take effect only upon membership ratification of a Single Contract that will provide improvements for all 25,000 Flight Attendants at the new United.