The Grass Is Always Greener On The Other Side

[A.O.G]

Hey guys, just wondering if I could get a littel feedback on this. I,ve been flying for a few years now and starting to build some half decent hours flyin bags around the province but......you see I've got one hell of a hard on to fly mediums (I.E. Bumpin drills). Now I guess I have two questions, 1) For the men that have made it what sort of hours should one have before even starting to pound on doors?
2) And can you give me any insight to how you got your start, is it who you know? Skill? Hours? The right place at the right time? Or should I just stay the hell away from them all to gether?......Maybe that was more than two questions but to hear your views on the subject would be greatly appreaciated.


A.O.G

 

[Big Duke 6]

AOG Are you crazy? Hualin' drills is for guys that can't do anything else. 3000-5000 hrs is a good start. Highly recommend a summer on a medium chasing fires first, a full bucket weighs in around the same weight as a drill. This will help minamize the "oops, sorry about that" quote to your co-ordinator for the first couple of season's. As for skills required, having no brain is a good start :wacko: . No, seriously above average longline skills, extensive mountain experience, working knowlege of a seismic program ie 2D,3D as well as extensive Kodiak experience. Hualin' drills requires the production of logging with the accuracy of Mtn Rescue, only your patient comes in at around 3000 lbs .Being at the right place and the right time is always good, however when we do our hiring we often call the recording client ie, the Push/Party Manager, observer and co-ordinator for references, not only the helicopter company. Keep in good standing with your recording crew, becuase they are the ones who see you fly everyday. Once your there it's challenging flying, but is a lot of fun . Anything to add Vert-REf?

 

[Vortex Ring]

A.O.G. I'll trade you my S61 seat on the back of a Navy boat for your bag job. I'm sick and tired of staring at the dials and I've had enuf of heavies.....probably an incredibly naive point of view of course but I am really looking forward to strapping on a light machine for a change......

Best of luck though, I know you guys (commercial helo pilots) work you buns off to get the jobs you do get so go man.....

PS: Anytime you visit the Halifax area give me a heads up and I'll do all I can to get you a ride in a Sea King....ok well once they un-ground them again :wacko:

 

[CTD]

If you can haul bags you can move seismic drills. However, if you're used to bossing around an A-Star cyclic, you'd better smooth out that right hand before you strap on a medium.

Curious, why do we all think bigger is better? I've flown heavies, mediums, intermediates and lights, and find (found) lights to be the most fun.

Vortex Ring - got your message, and I'm not ignoring you! Will compose something soon...
BV

 

[VERTICAL REF]

Big Duke pretty much aced it all. I will add that you must "live" seismic. Moving drills is something that you must really want to do and enjoy! This aint' no recording crew "heli assist" stuff. You will find the that the production level is much much higher with greater costs involved. 95% of the time you are in a camp because you are in the rocks along the eastern slopes.

There are only about 5 or 6 companies that move drills. And only about 25 pilots in all of canada that are "accepted" by there drilling clients. It is very clickie if you know what i mean. Your production and abilities determine the wages of 14 other people...not ok to have a bad day! Not one of these aviation companies will put you on drills without previous medium time! You will hurt somebody or break something!
Take your 350 gallon bucket and open the strap right up, put it on a 150, at place it in a relay tank at 7000' - thats a good start! Do that for a summer and then you are ready for the cooler fall drilling programs!

I have seen 15 and 20 thousand hour pilots with 10 thousand hours of longline time get run off production seismic drill jobs in less than and hour! Arrogance will shorten your drill career! I use half of my skills to heli-log compared to the skills required to move drills.

A lot of the above can be said for many types of flying, to certain degrees. :huh:

But you will understand it all when you are a production junkie racing a drill rocket! Get ready to do 150 to 300 picks a day!

Will have to differ there CTD with regards to the bags / drills comparison!

Oh ya, I hope you can swing a hammer. Cause your first year of drilling all you will be doing is straightening "legs" :blink:

Best o' luck. It can be a very enjoyable rewarding career! And stay away from the mud and foamer!!!

 

[Big Duke 6]

CTD, no disrespect but I would have to totally disagree with your comparison in regards to Bags vs Drills. Huge Huge difference. That's like saying flying lunches in the 206 is the same as production skiing in the 212. It's an excellant start but no where close to being in the same league. I do agree with ya though, on Bigger is not always better.

AOG if your still really keen after a summer on mediums loading and unloading your spares . Pm me and we will try and get you going in the right direction. Our door is always open for pilots that are keen and dedicated. Best of luck.

 

[Hogie]

AOG, I think that the biggest thing to keep in mind is don't be in a big hurry, it sounds like you're keen to get where you want to go. Big D and Vert Ref have some pretty sound advice, a season or 2 on fires will only help in the long run, and CTD's advice on workin' on smooth cyclic inputs will be a great help in many ways. Good luck and keep us posted.

 

[HBG]

Big Duke, Check your PM's.

 

[CTD]

OK, you both disagree, and you both do it for a living - but I've done both as well, and I don't see the difference in production work with bags and production work with drills - unless you're talking about slamming bags into the ground and having to be a little more gentle with drills?

Granted, almost all my experience was with precision VRef, so maybe I wasn't being 'agressive' enough? Still, nobody complained about my 'production' levels, and I certainly didn't get run off any jobs. Quite the contrary, as a matter of fact, with the Destiny crews.

Please explain and discuss.

 

[A.O.G]

Hey you guy's kick ass I wasn't expecting any replies on that one, thanks for the insight. I know that it's not going to be easy to get into the driver seat and I definetly know it's going to take awhile to get there (But if you don't have goals whats the point). Speaking of filling relay tanks I watching on of the HQ boy's filling one :blink: not only did watching him do his thing make realize that I've still got a lot of bags to swing but it also finallize the my decision on were I want my career to go.Who knows maybe in a year or two or three I will get my chance.

Big D: You mentioning many things like extensive kodiak experiance, unfortunetly for me the companys that I work with still send some scared little boy out in the bush armed with nothing more than a roll of flaggin & a dinner bell for the bears to mark bag drops. Same goes for the mountain ex, the most I had of that would be around Jasper this summer on fires & my initial flight training. I just don't get exposed to that stuff here, are you saying that it wouldn't hurt to seek employment at company's that do?

Vert: As long as there is a line strapped to my ass I will live and breath any job. How can't you? When not only are you trying to meet the stanards of the people that hired you for the job but the ones you set for yourself? go go go makes the time go by faster.

CTD: I think the answer to your Question is easy.....I think it has to do with the set of cahoonas hangging between our legs. I think Tim the tool man taylor said it best with argh argh argh.

 

[412driver]

i found once i got into the mediums the money got better. i never did the siesmic show in a medium but chased alot of fires then the IFR offshore..........

but i have to agree with CTD, when my student flew a perfect approach to a mountain pad yesterday in a "little" 300, well, that put a smile on my face about as big as after rappeling 6 firefighters onto a slope at 6000' in the rocks

 

[Ice Floe]

Before I put my foot in my mouth, what type of drills are we talking about?
i.e. longyear, boyles ?

 

[CTD]

Hey Ice Floe, good to see you on board!

They're talking about heli-portable seismic drills, usually moved with a medium, and require no assembly like the one's you're used to.

There are usually several of them along the seismic lines, drilling shallow holes, and get leap-frogged up the line in what usually resembles a panic.

 

[Vortex Ring]

Geez no bites for my job flyin' 61's off the back of a boat eh.....I'll never get out here :blink:

 

[A.O.G]

Vortex I'd love to trade, but as you can see I can't even step into mediums yet.
That and you don't have 100' line underneath you to haul logs or somthing . If I ever do make to the east coast I'd sure love it if I could take a tour of the old girl.
That is if you don't breakin to this side of things first,good luck.

Does anybody know were I could get my hands on a old 204 flight manual? I'd like to start learn the systems just for curriocitys sake. (never hurts to know these things) <_<