Take-home Pay Survey

[Justme]

Here's the impact of a 23% paycut (maximum within range):

Less than $1,200 - $276 = $924 amount of new check
$1,400 - $322 = $1,078
$1,600 - $368 = $1,232
$1,800 - $414 = $1,386
$2,000 - $460 = $1,540
$2,500 - $575 = $1,925
$3,000 - $690 = $2,310

Double those numbers and you'll get the monthly amount lost. They range from $552 to $1,380 per month. My family would have difficulty even with the lowest amount there. How many families can weather these numbers for more than a month or two? I think not a lot.

I am guessing that the average monthly amount lost would be around $800.00. I just hope that, if approved, this cut is short-lived. Then again, if it is replaced by a 12% cut and a doubling of the medical premium and a co-pay increase then it won't be much of an improvement.

No opinions here, just that it looks like it's going to be a hard road to hoe for U's families at least in the near to mid term.

jm

 

[PITbull]

OUr Union Legal advisors and counselors will need to present their arguement in those terms.

Employees will not survive with those steep pay cuts.

 

[Robc98]

yeah...well try being someone who now makes 13.01 hr at the 8 or 9 mainline/express stations along with any new MDA agents .......these were the cuts(45pct) that we had to endure during the last contract vote ....a vote by our peers around the country who didnt hold their ground then.....so now its time for everyone else to pay the piper....the mainline group voted to retain the larger cities pay and sold out the smaller medium size cities....so now its put up or shut up....cuz the cuts are comin and i hope this union can somehow do damage control....but this stand by everyone in cust svc is way too late....this union tried to bring everyone together to hold our ground before and now its a very split group....ive accepted my reality here and took the cuts....so did the small group of 20plus year employees.....but we were sold out at the expense of the larger cities....now its your turn......good luck.........

 

[CynicalResAgent]

A bunch of us in Res are supposed to hit A scale in the end of October......a pay cut, and a freeze will mean we will be making almost 8 or 9 dollars an hour less in pay than we would have been. Is'nt that a major kick in the crotch?

Oh thats right, I forgot people like USA3000Pilot think that the planes will park, board, load and clean themselves with the use of Kiosks and that the .com nightmare that we have built can sell all the tickets, answer all the questions, and handle all of the frequent flyer issues.......so I really am of no concern to him and should just blindly take a paycut so he can stay in the left seat.

 

[Light Years]

F/As on the MDA side are bringing home between 1200-1600 a MONTH. PSA F/As make significantly less a month. Thats for 20 days on the road, away from home a month, some days going up to 14 hours.

 

[bigbusdrvr]

OUr Union Legal advisors and counselors will need to present their arguement in those terms.

Employees will not survive with those steep pay cuts.

[post="184759"][/post]​

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Explain how the LCC f/a's survive on that pay and ours can't?

What kind of argument can you posibly make to a judge that justify's more than your competitors?

 

[firstamendment]

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Explain how the LCC f/a's survive on that pay and ours can't?

What kind of argument can you posibly make to a judge that justify's more than your competitors?

[post="184819"][/post]​

Busdriver,

One thing this management group and the press will not tell you is that the mother of all lcc's, Southwest, makes much more than US Airways as the payscale now stands. All newcomers in this industry make about the same. In case you do not know, airlines have an A scale and a B scale. At the mainline airlines like US and American, After 5 years one gets a huge increase..the hope is that many will move on before reaching that milestone. This hope never happened as f/a (for example) made this a career. Because we are now a senior airline, we have very few employees on the lower scale.

It is deceiving to compare US Airways to Jetblue because all the employees have under six years. If you do the math, you will see that yes, labor cost will be and IS substantially higher at US. You will notice that our management and those complaining about higher labor cost never speak the words Southwest Airlines. They have now decided that if we at US can't accept the wages of a 5 year old airline, we should liquidate.

Having said that, I and many others paid their dues of struggling from paycheck to paycheck. It isn't as if we automatically started at the salary we make now. Been there, done that.

The thing that really amazes me is the number of people who buy into corperate America's seemingly consistant battle cry..."Go away! We don't want you! You cost us too much!" HUM..Since when did it become a sin for a 42 year old MAN..yes man, not boy right out of university..to make $40,000 a year.

When this operation goes or if another job comes my way, I have learned many things from US. I will never be loyal to a company. 18 years and you're considered a pain in management's side. Thanks US. You may as well put coal studs in our service pins. AND, it will be about money and stepping over anyone who is in my way. No more nice guy to mismanagement. I will aggressively search for other employment and then leave.

Maybe I and a few others have been living in a time warp, believing that loyalty and dedication would be rewarded. Well, now I realize loyalty and dedication equals weakness. What a fool I was.

I have been quiet lately because I needed a break from all the doom and gloom but when I think of a $9000 paycut because the airlines want to kill each other off by not raising airfares while gas prices go out the roof? This makes my blood boil. Every conceivable business I can think of have raise prices of products when that company's bottom line is affected by oil prices.

I hope that the flying public will soon realize that no company gives you low prices because they really care. This industry wants one or two airlines to fail and will continue this insanity until someone falls. Enjoy your low fares now. It doesn't take Biz 101 to figure out when we get down to 4 or 5 airlines, there will be little competition and those surviving companies will jack up prices. Let's see how much everyone "luvs" Southwest and Jetblue when that happens.

Am I bitter? Not really. That's just reality. I work for a company that has been about to go under for 16 years. I accept that as it is, but please, I hear so much blah blah blah from the lcc's. Enjoy the ride but please don't paint the perfect picture that I hear so many do. Airlines are not non-profit organizations. They want to make money and it IS in the LUV's and JBLU's best interest for one or two airlines to go under and raise price (as well as the legacies) as a way of protecting and building their franchise. There's nothing wrong with that but just be honest.

 

[Expectorant]

A bunch of us in Res are supposed to hit A scale in the end of October......a pay cut, and a freeze will mean we will be making almost 8 or 9 dollars an hour less in pay than we would have been. Is'nt that a major kick in the crotch?

Oh thats right, I forgot people like USA3000Pilot think that the planes will park, board, load and clean themselves with the use of Kiosks and that the .com nightmare that we have built can sell all the tickets, answer all the questions, and handle all of the frequent flyer issues.......so I really am of no concern to him and should just blindly take a paycut so he can stay in the left seat.

[post="184793"][/post]​

That's kind of a mean thing to say. How can you compare an airline pilot to a Res Agent? I worked in Res for 24 years at USAirways and know that it's no picnic, but I would never compare the work that I did to that of a pilot. Decide what you want: Accept the situation and do your job or, depending upon your age, leave now and get a job that will give you more pleasure and a future. I did NOT do that but should have. With 24 years of service and now a retiree, after my medical/dental deductions, my monthly retirement check is $39!!

 

[diogenes]

firstamendment,

well said, friend.

 

[Light Years]

Busdriver,

One thing this management group and the press will not tell you is that the mother of all lcc's, Southwest, makes much more than US Airways as the payscale now stands. All newcomers in this industry make about the same. In case you do not know, airlines have an A scale and a B scale. At the mainline airlines like US and American, After 5 years one gets a huge increase..the hope is that many will move on before reaching that milestone. This hope never happened as f/a (for example) made this a career. Because we are now a senior airline, we have very few employees on the lower scale.

[post="184826"][/post]​

Good explanation Firstamendment. I'd like to add on about the junior side of the F/A list and the HUGE advantage US has negotiated.

If you look at US Airways specifically, right now, there are no B-scale F/As. Every one of the active F/As has over 5 years. F/As under 5 years are furloughed or are in MidAtlantic division, which pays commuter wages (lower than the likes of Comair, regional jet competition) to fly aircraft that other airlines (JetBlue for example!) consider to be regular mainline aircraft. So US Airways has essentially created a "C-scale" that is MUCH lower than not only ALL of the LCCs, but most commuter airlines flying turboprops (and we're talking 70-100 seat jets). A new hire JetBlue F/A will make $20 per flight hour (usually 90 or so a month) to work on the same aircraft that a 5 YEAR US Airways F/A makes $17 on.

Assuming US remained in business and begins aircraft deliveries again, to include E190/195 aircraft, US Airways would be able to fly 100 seat aircraft paying its flight attendants wages negotiated for small turboprop flying (the contract is American Eagle's contract from several years ago.) Consider that JetBlue will fly the 190 at "mainline" wages, that Northwest flies DC9s with the same amount of seats, American F100s, AirTran 717s, and our old friends Southwest the smaller 737 models. All of these aircraft perform the same mission, paying thier F/As "mainline pay." Also, the very same US Airways F/As were staffing the company's DC9 (100 seats) and F100 (97 seats!) fleets three years ago, at a mainline wage (starting at $20, which is what JetBlue starts at). Years before, F28s, BAC111s and BAE146s were also part of the US fleet, under negotiated mainline contracts.

If you have a longevity based pay system, where pay icreases and efficiency decreases with seniority, the only way to keep up is to be growing and adding. Southwest always has lower labor costs (despite current "better" contracts) because they are ALWAYS growing, and therefore hiring. US, on the other hand, parked half of thier planes and got rid of 40% of its workforce. Which half? The junior, lower paid half. So where US once had 11,000 F/As on varying pay scales, they now have 5000, all of whom are A-scale, most of whom are topped out in pay, or very close to it. And thats not really much in the scheme of things.

JetBlue F/As make the same or more starting as US did when the two were hiring. Thier pay does not increase as much, but it likely will when folks get tired of making less than 20K a year. Southwests' folks did, and they demanded a fair contract that maintains efficiency but puts food on the table and clothes on the back in todays economy.

Theres no reason, like Firstamendment noted, that someone whos given 15-30 years of loyal service to a company in a unique job with high safety responsibility, the biggest marketing/service job, and takes up most of the days and nights of their lives- is not worth $40k a year? :blink:

 

[firstamendment]

Good explanation Firstamendment. I'd like to add on about the junior side of the F/A list and the HUGE advantage US has negotiated.

If you look at US Airways specifically, right now, there are no B-scale F/As. Every one of the active F/As has over 5 years. F/As under 5 years are furloughed or are in MidAtlantic division, which pays commuter wages (lower than the likes of Comair, regional jet competition) to fly aircraft that other airlines (JetBlue for example!) consider to be regular mainline aircraft. So US Airways has essentially created a "C-scale" that is MUCH lower than not only ALL of the LCCs, but most commuter airlines flying turboprops (and we're talking 70-100 seat jets). A new hire JetBlue F/A will make $20 per flight hour (usually 90 or so a month) to work on the same aircraft that a 5 YEAR US Airways F/A makes $17 on.

Assuming US remained in business and begins aircraft deliveries again, to include E190/195 aircraft, US Airways would be able to fly 100 seat aircraft paying its flight attendants wages negotiated for small turboprop flying (the contract is American Eagle's contract from several years ago.) Consider that JetBlue will fly the 190 at "mainline" wages, that Northwest flies DC9s with the same amount of seats, American F100s, AirTran 717s, and our old friends Southwest the smaller 737 models. All of these aircraft perform the same mission, paying thier F/As "mainline pay." Also, the very same US Airways F/As were staffing the company's DC9 (100 seats) and F100 (97 seats!) fleets three years ago, at a mainline wage (starting at $20, which is what JetBlue starts at). Years before, F28s, BAC111s and BAE146s were also part of the US fleet, under negotiated mainline contracts.

If you have a longevity based pay system, where pay icreases and efficiency decreases with seniority, the only way to keep up is to be growing and adding. Southwest always has lower labor costs (despite current "better" contracts) because they are ALWAYS growing, and therefore hiring. US, on the other hand, parked half of thier planes and got rid of 40% of its workforce. Which half? The junior, lower paid half. So where US once had 11,000 F/As on varying pay scales, they now have 5000, all of whom are A-scale, most of whom are topped out in pay, or very close to it. And thats not really much in the scheme of things.

JetBlue F/As make the same or more starting as US did when the two were hiring. Thier pay does not increase as much, but it likely will when folks get tired of making less than 20K a year. Southwests' folks did, and they demanded a fair contract that maintains efficiency but puts food on the table and clothes on the back in todays economy.

Theres no reason, like Firstamendment noted, that someone whos given 15-30 years of loyal service to a company in a unique job with high safety responsibility, the biggest marketing/service job, and takes up most of the days and nights of their lives- is not worth $40k a year? :blink:

[post="184863"][/post]​

Thanks for the addition.

 

[bigbusdrvr]

Thanks for the addition.

[post="184905"][/post]​

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So then maybe Usair needs to hire back the newer seniority, lower paid f/a's and forlough out of seniority!!

That would solve the problem of being an old airline vs a new one...excellent idea!!

 

[Bluestreak]

Lightyears,

Great post. I agree that the FAs at express should make more money, but here is the problem: the cost to train new FAs is extremely low and there are piles of fools lined up to fill new FA spots when the current ones quit. Here at PSA our FA turn over is crazy high but management doesn't care. It is cheaper for them to have a revolving door of FAs than it is to pay senioir wages. I am guessing it costs PSA less than $2000 to train an FA. It only costs $17 a night for hotel for FA trainies in DAY and they have to share a room. It costs PSA only $9.50 per night to put up new hires. On top of that our training center is subsidized by the city of Dayton. Also, PSA gets a pay off for each FA trained by the state of Ohio. The only real costs for training FAs is their monthly garuntee and per diem. Training only takes two weeks so that money couldn't add up to more than $1000.

Whenever PSA holds a FA cattle call tons of potential new hires show up. PSA turns down most applicants. There is a never ending supply of fresh meat. Management likes it that way. It keeps costs down. Somewhere around the two year seniority mark it actually costs the company more to retain a current FA than it costs to start a new one. They want the FAs to come here for two years work hard and then quit. There isn't really a way to end the cycle unless folks stop responding to FA help wanted adds.

On the bright side, if you are a sharp FA there are lots of check FA slot to be filled or you can get a training job. There is some hope for the smart motivated folks that are in it because they love airline work.

 

[Light Years]

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So then maybe Usair needs to hire back the newer seniority, lower paid f/a's and forlough out of seniority!!

That would solve the problem of being an old airline vs a new one...excellent idea!!

[post="184952"][/post]​

No, thats not only morally wrong on so many different levels, its not really that much of a help. You'd still run into the same problem in a few years when they also become a little more senior. If you try to force people into doing it as a temporary job under dire conditions, you'll have an inexperienced, and well, low-class staff that will lose more business than they make for you. See Mesa.

Contracts, pay in particular- move. They are designed to be like a train ride. You get on in the back of the seniority train where its a pretty crappy ride, making your way up the train where the ride is smoother. There are always people getting on at the back, helping you forward, just as there are people ahead of you getting off at the final stop. If the train breaks down or loses a few cars, the system starts to look like its broken. But its not... its the train thats broken.

This particular train, the sharp navy and gray one, forgot where it was going, got off the track to wait for someone to pull it, and was robbed by bandit conducters. So the people are just sitting on the train. The last ones on, who were taking up the least room, have already been pushed off. The remaining ones just want to get to thier final destination, or close to it, like they were supposed to. They are now being told that it was unreasonable for them to expect the train to go there, even though thats what they were told. Now the current conductor wants this old steam locomotive to be like the light rail, something completely different, but they want to be a locomotive doing the work of a light rail. The people, who have been on the train much longer, in fact they have sooty faces from being around trains all thier lives and know this one inside and out, know thats thats not possible.

Chooo-chooo.

 

[Reservation Agent]

I guess if the company can go bankrupt, they figure the employees can lose their homes, cars, default on credit cards, etc...Go bankrupt, too..

They want us to share the experience of personal bankruptcys with an almost 25 percent cut of pay... There's not much left as it is now! with about 25 percent gone to taxes....

Not to mention higher costs of living now....

It is getting real ugly...especially with those millions of dollars going to x-CEO's.....