Question

D

Doc

Veteran
Jul 15, 2003
783
4
Ok What happens if we don't talk to them .....Then comes the end of the 4 month pay cut ....I know about the 1113c but what happens in the event they show small profit...I realize that it would be tough but we are full on every flight and I check the total bookings every day and on average we are booked 170,000 to 195,000 a day mainline and express you have to put them together because express charges more on some flights then mainline does .

So what if.......................................................
 
Doc,

Here's my 2 cents worth (and it's probably not worth that)...

I suspect that the company will file 1113c motions within 30-60 days for those groups without an agreement because they'll want permanent cuts in place before the 1113e interim relief runs out (course, they could petition the judge to extend the interim relief I guess - any lawyers out there).

As for a profit, I wouldn't expect it to be reported till the 4th quarter if there does happen to be one - that means late Jan 05 before it's reported. Not that I expect a profit, mind you. The last BK cost an average of $15 million a month in "professional fees". Don't know how this BK will compare, but the company is still adding "ordinary course professionals" to the list of those they're allowed to pay.

Jim
 
Doc,

In the interest of full disclosure, I was one of those that was willing to "take it to the judge". I certainly don't know what he would have done (and now we'll never know in ALPA's case), but it's at least a possibility that the term of any imposed contract could have been shorter. After all, that's the big change he made in the company's interim relief request.

Of course, those on the other side would continue to say any imposed terms would be worse, conforted by the knowledge that they can never be proved wrong at this point.

Jim
 
Jim,

Unlike you, I believe the legal and financial advisors, and they shred your idea to bits...thats what I pay dues for. What makes you think your better than them, what qualifications and track record do you have?

I am happy that the vote passed, and only wish those pathetic fools sent out the table positions a few months back...they were woefully wrong doing what they did, and now the membership has spoken (and will pay the price of the RC4 fail strategy for years to come).

In summary, I respect your right to have the viewpoint you do, but I find it very hard to relate to your concepts...

Let me guess, you are voting for Bush too? Against all the union political action information?

BoeingBoy said:
Doc,

In the interest of full disclosure, I was one of those that was willing to "take it to the judge". I certainly don't know what he would have done (and now we'll never know in ALPA's case), but it's at least a possibility that the term of any imposed contract could have been shorter. After all, that's the big change he made in the company's interim relief request.

Of course, those on the other side would continue to say any imposed terms would be worse, conforted by the knowledge that they can never be proved wrong at this point.

Jim
[post="193799"][/post]​
Click to expand...
 
The company will be back for more, mark my words, their track record speaks for itself.
 
According to ALPA's Legal Department, and in particular Mike Abram, Esq., Judge Mitchell will protect the Debtor (the Company) and the Creditor's during the proceeding and the S.1113© process.

Abram was a High School Valedictorian, a Harvard Law School graduate, and has worked for Labor as a Labor Relations attorney for over 30 years. Abram has been involved with every ALPA carrier negotiation while working for the respected law firm of Cowen, Weiss, and Simon, and is presently working on the Delta pilot contract.

Abram believes Judge Mitchell has great latitude within the statute and any union who does not obtain a TA will get a worse deal through likely "imposition". Abram accurately predicted the ALPA negotiation and result and batted 1000% during the pilot negotiation. Furthermore, ALPA legal believes the court will strike the "self help" provision and could permit outsourcing if there is a job action, either now or during the S.1113© process.

Respectfully,

USA320Pilot
 
UseYourHead said:
Let me guess, you are voting for Bush too?
[post="194214"][/post]​
Click to expand...
I know I am. The unions can go pound salt, wait "compact" salt....

Government officials are not going to solve your problems, voting one way or the other will not save your job, face it, you're on your own.....

All the words in the world on these boards are no going to change a thing, the U employee’s glory days are over, time to move on and beat the rush hour traffic before it comes to a stand still…
 
USA320Pilot said:
According to ALPA's Legal Department, and in particular Mike Abram, Esq., Judge Mitchell will protect the Debtor (the Company) and the Creditor's during the proceeding and the S.1113© process.

Abram was a High School Valedictorian, a Harvard Law School graduate, and has worked for Labor as a Labor Relations attorney for over 30 years. Abram has been involved with every ALPA carrier negotiation while working for the respected law firm of Cowen, Weiss, and Simon, and is presently working on the Delta pilot contract.

Abram believes Judge Mitchell has great latitude within the statute and any union who does not obtain a TA will get a worse deal through likely "imposition". Abram accurately predicted the ALPA negotiation and result and batted 1000% during the pilot negotiation. Furthermore, ALPA legal believes the court will strike the "self help" provision and could permit outsourcing if there is a job action, either now or during the S.1113© process.

Respectfully,

USA320Pilot
[post="194220"][/post]​
Click to expand...

And youR advisors have major self-interest. And it should be FULL-DISCLOSURE from ALPA IF the company pays a bonus to these advisors for ratification via ALPA.

ALPA want ratification because they get the dues dollars no matter who sits in the seats, as long as the company is still in business.

THAT'S ALL SELF-INTEREST.
 
You made a mistake?

It is not in the name of a law firm. It is thinking the world revolves around you. That would be a real apology.
 
USA320Pilot said:
According to ALPA's Legal Department, and in particular Mike Abram, Esq., Judge Mitchell will protect the Debtor (the Company) and the Creditor's during the proceeding and the S.1113© process.

Abram was a High School Valedictorian, a Harvard Law School graduate, and has worked for Labor as a Labor Relations attorney for over 30 years. Abram has been involved with every ALPA carrier negotiation while working for the respected law firm of Cowen, Simon, and Weiss, and is presently working on the Delta pilot contract.

Abram believes Judge Mitchell has great latitude within the statute and any union who does not obtain a TA will get a worse deal through likely "imposition". Abram accurately predicted the ALPA negotiation and result and batted 1000% during the pilot negotiation. Furthermore, ALPA legal believes the court will strike the "self help" provision and could permit outsourcing if there is a job action, either now or during the S.1113© process.

Respectfully,

USA320Pilot
[post="194220"][/post]​
Click to expand...






Translation: The company, this management team has labor by the gonads so you might as well accept your fate and stop fighting the surgery that is planned for you.

It’s a sad state of affairs when as paying union members your dues money gets you zero. The system is slanted heavily in corporate Americas favor. In good times you don’t need unions and in bad times they are powerless, so why do we pay union dues?

We thought Dave Siegel was a sham getting 5 million for lying to us, look at Kmart’s CEO! He was there for nine whole months accomplishing nothing and received 90 million dollars.

So is Kerry with his billions going to stop the “rich†bad guys. Of course not and we know Bush won’t either.

Face it people, we live in a fallen world where nothing is fair, trying to change it with different “fallen†people is playing musical chairs. Vote the bum out, take them to court, then go look for another job because you will in the end regardless.

Trying to understand the infinite with a finite mind is impossible but yet we have tons of posters trying their best daily…..great entertainment.

Met a lot of nice and intelligent people. Can’t say U failed from lack of talent, U had some of the best and chose to abuse those precious resources to the point they’re leaving and if staying no longer care, which is good because it protects them from insanity.

Unions have seen their day, corporate America is holding the reins and digging it’s spurs deep into labor with the help of corporate law made possible by the very people the unions supported…funny world we live in.
 
UseYourHead said:
I am happy that the vote passed, and only wish those pathetic fools sent out the table positions a few months back...they were woefully wrong doing what they did, and now the membership has spoken
Click to expand...

....
First of all I am not an ALPA member. I am in another union. You guys continue to bash each other about the actions of the TC4. After the TA was voted on, it is apparent that they did not speak for the majority of the pilots. My question is, When elected by their local (base...whatever you call it) , who were they to represent...the members of their local only ..or the entire pilots group? If it is their local, according to the numbers I have seen posted on this chat site, they did indeed represent their local as they should have.
 
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