Pull Together Win Together

[leveralone]

If I pull any harder I'll need a F%&KING shoulder operation, just like so many of my co-workers have had over the years. It is time to WIN together! We have all suffered from the effects of 911 and the never ending BUSH WAR (is it his war or his daddy's?) but it is time for us to stand up to Corparate America. The price of oil doesn't only effect the "Airline Industry" it also effect the everyday blue collar Joe who has to fill his tank or heat his home. So I don't buy into this crying poor bullsh#t from AA. If you can afford to pay the pencil pushers and the beancounters then pay the workinging man too!!!!

I mean SNAP BACK and nothing less!!!!

 

[frontline]

If I pull any harder I'll need a F%&KING shoulder operation, just like so many of my co-workers have had over the years. It is time to WIN together! We have all suffered from the effects of 911 and the never ending BUSH WAR (is it his war or his daddy's?) but it is time for us to stand up to Corparate America. The price of oil doesn't only effect the "Airline Industry" it also effect the everyday blue collar Joe who has to fill his tank or heat his home. So I don't buy into this crying poor bullsh#t from AA. If you can afford to pay the pencil pushers and the beancounters then pay the workinging man too!!!!

I mean SNAP BACK and nothing less!!!!

leveralone I have to take issue with some of your setiments. My wife is an airline "beancounter" as you say but hardly an executive fat cat. She and I make enough together to make ends meet, and there are plenty of rank and file workers like her in the "white collar" part of the company who are not taking home hundreds of thousands a year.

I for one bought into the "win together" stuff and, while disappointed at the direction of several things in the last few years, I still hope this is not a dead idea. I saw friends at others carriers go down the ugly path of bankruptcy and I have no desire to see AA do that. I know I'm not offering specifics in this post, but really hope we as a company can avoid that fate.

As for snap back I'd love to see it happen but just don't think it's realistic. It's short-term thinking at best.

 

[TWU informer]

leveralone I have to take issue with some of your setiments. My wife is an airline "beancounter" as you say but hardly an executive fat cat. She and I make enough together to make ends meet, and there are plenty of rank and file workers like her in the "white collar" part of the company who are not taking home hundreds of thousands a year.

I for one bought into the "win together" stuff and, while disappointed at the direction of several things in the last few years, I still hope this is not a dead idea. I saw friends at others carriers go down the ugly path of bankruptcy and I have no desire to see AA do that. I know I'm not offering specifics in this post, but really hope we as a company can avoid that fate.

As for snap back I'd love to see it happen but just don't think it's realistic. It's short-term thinking at best.

"I've got mine Brother"!

 

[The Goose]

leveralone I have to take issue with some of your setiments. My wife is an airline "beancounter" as you say but hardly an executive fat cat. She and I make enough together to make ends meet, and there are plenty of rank and file workers like her in the "white collar" part of the company who are not taking home hundreds of thousands a year.

I for one bought into the "win together" stuff and, while disappointed at the direction of several things in the last few years, I still hope this is not a dead idea. I saw friends at others carriers go down the ugly path of bankruptcy and I have no desire to see AA do that. I know I'm not offering specifics in this post, but really hope we as a company can avoid that fate.

As for snap back I'd love to see it happen but just don't think it's realistic. It's short-term thinking at best.

First, you have to accept that Arpey and troupe are not interested in an equitable settlement, nor have they ever been since this cluster was sold to us in 2003. I said at that time it would be undone by the management and sure enough, guess what happened? "Pull Together, We Win, You Lose" is more on the order of the company belief. The concessions were sold on the basis of "we'll do better when the company makes a comeback".

Only after the 2003 contract was ratified by Little did we begin to see the word "permanent" being used in reference to our ceded wages and benefits, never before when the sales pitch was hot and heavy. The company had no intent of ever going back to the "old ways", indeed, they began to use the term "market rates" much more often with respect to our compensation and benefits than ever before - this was less than 3 months after the contract had been ratifiedby Little that the new terminology was being regularly used by management. This is all with the blessing of the TWU.

As far as bankruptcy is concerned, what we all saw (UAL, NWA, USA, DAL, CAL) were pre-October 2005 BK filings. No major airline has filed under the new rules which seem to be a bit friendlier towards workers than before - the corporations don't have quite the blank check in court they had previously, according to some opions, but ... as I said, no major airline has filed for Chapter 11 relief under the new laws, the closest thing to a major being Frontier and that was only because their credit card processor wanted to withhold 30 days of their c/c sales. Aloha (after being hosed by Mesa) and another did Chapter 7 filings - they're history.

That being said, I'm with you - I really don't care to be a test case for the new bk laws but I'm rather tired of being lied to by both the company (expected) and my union representation (intolerable).

 

[FrequentFlierCA]

First, you have to accept that Arpey and troupe are not interested in an equitable settlement, nor have they ever been since this cluster was sold to us in 2003. I said at that time it would be undone by the management and sure enough, guess what happened? "Pull Together, We Win, You Lose" is more on the order of the company belief. The concessions were sold on the basis of "we'll do better when the company makes a comeback".

Only after the 2003 contract was ratified by Little did we begin to see the word "permanent" being used in reference to our ceded wages and benefits, never before when the sales pitch was hot and heavy. The company had no intent of ever going back to the "old ways", indeed, they began to use the term "market rates" much more often with respect to our compensation and benefits than ever before - this was less than 3 months after the contract had been ratifiedby Little that the new terminology was being regularly used by management. This is all with the blessing of the TWU.

As far as bankruptcy is concerned, what we all saw (UAL, NWA, USA, DAL, CAL) were pre-October 2005 BK filings. No major airline has filed under the new rules which seem to be a bit friendlier towards workers than before - the corporations don't have quite the blank check in court they had previously, according to some opions, but ... as I said, no major airline has filed for Chapter 11 relief under the new laws, the closest thing to a major being Frontier and that was only because their credit card processor wanted to withhold 30 days of their c/c sales. Aloha (after being hosed by Mesa) and another did Chapter 7 filings - they're history.

That being said, I'm with you - I really don't care to be a test case for the new bk laws but I'm rather tired of being lied to by both the company (expected) and my union representation (intolerable).

I sometimes wonder how much of the heated dialogue is an "us vs. them" mentality based on a notion that labor and management in conflict is the way things are supposed to be. It doesn't have to be this way.

You will do better when the company make a comeback. Looking at results from 2003 to present, I don't see one yet. In five years when the oil price has fallen by two-thirds you'll have a very strong case for contractual gains, especially since your hard work and sacrifices saved the company money and, ultimately, control of its destiny.

The wages changes are "permanent" because the industry has permanently changed. The economic realities now don't support the wages of previous contracts. I for one hope AA turns it around and starts making bundles of money so that they can pay you more. In the near-term, though, the levels of competition and input costs mean that isn't feasible.

I really am rooting for you guys, I just think some of the expectations out there (2001 snap back for one) are just not realistic. While I want you to have good pay, I also want you to have jobs in five years.

 

[TWU informer]

Us vs Them? I thought we have been "working together for over 3 years now". And when it comes time for a reward, we get stonewalled. Might as well be us versus them, the outcome will apparently be the same. BBQ Sandwhich is not that good.

I get tired of the management types using fear and threats of no job.

I do not have to have American Airlines to survive on this planet.
American Airlines is not the most important thing is my life.

You can take your fear mongering BS and cram it between the Q and W on your keyboard.

Of course since we have been subjected to an ultra secret negotiation process, we have no idea what has really taken place. All we know is the current result. So since the union will not tell us what has been happening, we will make our own version of the way things seem to be.

 

[BigBangTheory]

"Pull Together, Win Together"

What's that? This was the biggest crock of **** out of AA managements mouth ever!

 

[MCI transplant]

<_< ----- You know people, it seems I've been down this road before! TWA management cryed wolf, the IAM buckled! We went nine plus years without a pay raise! They told us the same thing we're hearing now! "Take a cut, or we shut it down!" Then, "Sorry! Not this time!"------- History repeats itself! :down: :down: What did they say? "IF you don't learn from the past, your bound to repeat it!"------ Don't let this happen to you!! :mf_boff:

 

[wingit88]

leveralone I have to take issue with some of your setiments. My wife is an airline "beancounter" as you say but hardly an executive fat cat. She and I make enough together to make ends meet, and there are plenty of rank and file workers like her in the "white collar" part of the company who are not taking home hundreds of thousands a year.

I for one bought into the "win together" stuff and, while disappointed at the direction of several things in the last few years, I still hope this is not a dead idea. I saw friends at others carriers go down the ugly path of bankruptcy and I have no desire to see AA do that. I know I'm not offering specifics in this post, but really hope we as a company can avoid that fate.

As for snap back I'd love to see it happen but just don't think it's realistic. It's short-term thinking at best.

As much as it hurts and angers me, I have to agree with you about any snap and Chapter 11. It sickens me to admit this and I hate going against the grain, but I have to think in the long term and feel that if something doesn't give and we all continue to play an unrealistic game of hardball, instead of keeping us out of bankruptcy, we will be the driving force to get there.

 

[The Goose]

I sometimes wonder how much of the heated dialogue is an "us vs. them" mentality based on a notion that labor and management in conflict is the way things are supposed to be. It doesn't have to be this way.

I agree - things did not have to pan out in this manner, however - behind the "heated dialog", as you call it, are many feeling ill-used and lied to by both the management and the TWU (which is supposed to be working for labor, not against it).

You will do better when the company make a comeback. Looking at results from 2003 to present, I don't see one yet. In five years when the oil price has fallen by two-thirds you'll have a very strong case for contractual gains, especially since your hard work and sacrifices saved the company money and, ultimately, control of its destiny.

I have serious doubts about that. The term "market rate" has been used many times with regard to mechanics' pay. That tells us that even if the company were to suddenly begin making billions overnight, our labor would only be worth market rate, which the major carriers seem to have lowered considerably in the last 5 years by their willingness to outsource maintenance (and therefore the safety of fliers' furry posteriors) to the lowest bidder.

The wages changes are "permanent" because the industry has permanently changed. The economic realities now don't support the wages of previous contracts. I for one hope AA turns it around and starts making bundles of money so that they can pay you more. In the near-term, though, the levels of competition and input costs mean that isn't feasible.

See my last comment above.

I really am rooting for you guys, I just think some of the expectations out there (2001 snap back for one) are just not realistic. While I want you to have good pay, I also want you to have jobs in five years.

Indeed - those pay levels may not be realistic all considered, but I and many others feel we were lied to in order to put the 2003 concessions in place and continually lied to for the last 5 years by both the so-called union we can't seem to rid ourselves of and the management, the latter not being a great surprise.

 

[wingit88]

I have serious doubts about that. The term "market rate" has been used many times with regard to mechanics' pay. That tells us that even if the company were to suddenly begin making billions overnight, our labor would only be worth market rate, which the major carriers seem to have lowered considerably in the last 5 years by their willingness to outsource maintenance (and therefore the safety of fliers' furry posteriors) to the lowest bidder.

This is another unfair reality in our industry. I have family members and friends who have watched their jobs disappear in recent years to some third world country. We are fortunate to have a company ad union for that matter, that at least puts stock in the American worker. I can't trash TWU completely because of that while other so-called unions have let this sort of thing happen and have no qualms about signing illegals. Disgusting!

 

[Hopeful]

I have a great idea, especially for those who post that we should be grateful to just have jobs and we shouldn't ask or expect anything on this contract.

WHY DON'T WE WORK FOR $20 ON HOUR SO WE CAN SUBSIDIZE CHEAP FARES AND ALLOW THE STOCK PRICE TO SKYROCKET SO THE EXECUTIVES CAN GET DECENT "PUP" PAYOUTS...

After all, we can't afford to have our valuable executives leave AA for greener pastures, now could we!

If you pro-company sorts think that by bending over AGAIN and taking it in the rear to "help" the company is going to make things better, you are sadly mistaken..You think you have a morale problem NOW?

WAIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

We all know the true meaning of pull together, win together!

 

[coldplay]

If I pull any harder I'll need a F%&KING shoulder operation, just like so many of my co-workers have had over the years. It is time to WIN together! We have all suffered from the effects of 911 and the never ending BUSH WAR (is it his war or his daddy's?) but it is time for us to stand up to Corparate America. The price of oil doesn't only effect the "Airline Industry" it also effect the everyday blue collar Joe who has to fill his tank or heat his home. So I don't buy into this crying poor bullsh#t from AA. If you can afford to pay the pencil pushers and the beancounters then pay the workinging man too!!!!

I mean SNAP BACK and nothing less!!!!

I like this message by a FA I run into last week, everyone in his crew were wearing this button, simple and straight to the point:

he has a site where you can buy stuff to pass around or wear if you're really fed up with AA BS:

Website

I purchased some tees and buttons to pass around too.

 

[frontline]

I have a great idea, especially for those who post that we should be grateful to just have jobs and we shouldn't ask or expect anything on this contract.

WHY DON'T WE WORK FOR $20 ON HOUR SO WE CAN SUBSIDIZE CHEAP FARES AND ALLOW THE STOCK PRICE TO SKYROCKET SO THE EXECUTIVES CAN GET DECENT "PUP" PAYOUTS...

After all, we can't afford to have our valuable executives leave AA for greener pastures, now could we!

If you pro-company sorts think that by bending over AGAIN and taking it in the rear to "help" the company is going to make things better, you are sadly mistaken..You think you have a morale problem NOW?

WAIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

We all know the true meaning of pull together, win together!

For me this is not about being "pro-company" or "anti-company". Its about me having a job in three years when my first kid starts college. Also I'm not saying we should not ask for anything in this contract, just that the idea of snap back to 2001 is unrealistic.

 

[BigBangTheory]

I just bought some buttons. What a great idea!!