Procedures for incapacitated pilots?

[ronaldl79]

Just heard about the CO pilot who died after takeoff, and it resurfaced a thought I've had for some time -- What does an airline do in the event that BOTH pilots become incapacitated?

Obviously, there are few options, but is it something AA has considered?

 

[TIME FOR CHANGE]

Just heard about the CO pilot who died after takeoff, and it resurfaced a thought I've had for some time -- What does an airline do in the event that BOTH pilots become incapacitated?

Obviously, there are few options, but is it something AA has considered?

its called auto land

 

[AAStew]

I am pretty sure that either a flight attendant or pax with normal intelligence, could be talked through programming the airplane for an automatic landing. I have wondered about this situation from time to time and a few of our guys have tried to explain the procedures but basically it will take some very patient ground personnel to walk someone through this.

 

[AMFAMAN]

I am pretty sure that either a flight attendant or pax with normal intelligence, could be talked through programming the airplane for an automatic landing.

Haven't you've seen the movie "Airplane," you push auto-pilot and the blow-up doll takes over. Just remember, "we're all counting on you."

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

Just heard about the CO pilot who died after takeoff, and it resurfaced a thought I've had for some time -- What does an airline do in the event that BOTH pilots become incapacitated?

Obviously, there are few options, but is it something AA has considered?

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Ronald,

It's called........."$avings at ALL costs"

It was not so long ago, that the majority of AA A/C had "3" pilots in the cockpit.

Should you ever take a "trip" that goes over the North pole, and the A/C has ONLY two engines, I want you(Ronald) to THINK long and HARD about it !!


NH/BB's


ps,

I'm not sure what the "window" is, but on longer flights(say 10 hours) the FAA requires a "3rd" relief pilot.

WHY should YOUR safety to put in GREATER danger, on a trip scheduled at 9:59....than a trip scheduled at 10:01 ??????

 

[nbmcg01]

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Ronald,

It's called........."$avings at ALL costs"

It was not so long ago, that the majority of AA A/C had "3" pilots in the cockpit.

Should you ever take a "trip" that goes over the North pole, and the A/C has ONLY two engines, I want you(Ronald) to THINK long and HARD about it !!
NH/BB's
ps,

I'm not sure what the "window" is, but on longer flights(say 10 hours) the FAA requires a "3rd" relief pilot.

WHY should YOUR safety to put in GREATER danger, on a trip scheduled at 9:59....than a trip scheduled at 10:01 ??????

It is called a fatigue factor. Crew rest, 2 pilots remaining in the cockpit. Of course the f/as could land the plane...Didn't you realize that all of us are certified pilots? That is a very "hidden" talent and is part of the reason we get the "big bucks". Chances are if both pilots are totally incapacitated, the "big man" upstairs is sending a bunch of people a pretty strong message. I would certainly be hoping that there were either some commuting or dhding pilots on board. (to assist the f/as of course)

 

[ronaldl79]

3 pilots, eh? Times sure have changed. Reminds me of the 90s, where hot meals were served. Those were better times.

///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Ronald,

It's called........."$avings at ALL costs"

It was not so long ago, that the majority of AA A/C had "3" pilots in the cockpit.

Should you ever take a "trip" that goes over the North pole, and the A/C has ONLY two engines, I want you(Ronald) to THINK long and HARD about it !!
NH/BB's
ps,

I'm not sure what the "window" is, but on longer flights(say 10 hours) the FAA requires a "3rd" relief pilot.

WHY should YOUR safety to put in GREATER danger, on a trip scheduled at 9:59....than a trip scheduled at 10:01 ??????

 

[desertfox]

Haven't you've seen the movie "Airplane," you push auto-pilot and the blow-up doll takes over. Just remember, "we're all counting on you."

surely you cant be serious?

 

[AMFAMAN]

surely you cant be serious?

Come-on the movie was a classic, and don't call me surely.

 

[FWAAA]

Come-on the movie was a classic, and don't call me surely.

Anyone else catch The High and the Mighty on TCM this weekend? Excellent movie with Robert Stack and John Wayne.

 

[exB717Flyer]

WHY should YOUR safety to put in GREATER danger, on a trip scheduled at 9:59....than a trip scheduled at 10:01 ??????

When the Speed Limit is 65 MPH and you drive 66 you're speeding even though it's only one MPH. The cutoff has to be somewhere. And BTW, the cutoff is actually 8:00 before a third pilot is required. At some hour limit that I can't recall a fourth pilot and horizonal rest facilities are also required.

 

[eolesen]

It was not so long ago, that the majority of AA A/C had "3" pilots in the cockpit.

Perhaps Ken, Bob, or AMFAMAN could comment in more detail, but you're completely overlooking the role of the flight engineer, Bears.

The origin of the third man in the cockpit was as a trained mechanic, not a pilot. They had no more training on landing an aircraft than the flight attendant did.

When I joined AA in the 80's, there were a couple hundred left (all of them senior enough to hold bidlines on the same overwater flights you're so worried about). When the 727's were retired in 1999, there were still a dozen or so left on payroll. A lot of airlines like Kalitta and even ATA who fly to places like West Bumblefuq and Al-Dirtpatch still use PFE's because they're able to sign off logbooks in places where it's unlikely to have a licensed AMT.

Ironically, the reason that mechanics got kicked out of the cockpit was ALPA -- they convinced Eastern's management that pilots could do just as well of a job in monitoring aircraft systems as the FE could. When the FEIA went on strike at Eastern in 1962, ALPA jumped at the chance to take over those jobs (scabbing/raiding the FEIA is one of the key reasons APA decided to split off from ALPA).

Even more ironically, watering down the role of the FE is what prompted the FAA to reconsider the requirement to have a three man crew. Since the FE was an insignificant position as ALPA purported it to be, they chose to certify the DC-9 and 737 as two man cockpits. With that foot in the door, every commercial airframe certified since then has been a two man cockpit.

 

[Bob Owens]

Perhaps Ken, Bob, or AMFAMAN could comment in more detail, but you're completely overlooking the role of the flight engineer, Bears.

The origin of the third man in the cockpit was as a trained mechanic, not a pilot. They had no more training on landing an aircraft than the flight attendant did.

When I joined AA in the 80's, there were a couple hundred left (all of them senior enough to hold bidlines on the same overwater flights you're so worried about). When the 727's were retired in 1999, there were still a dozen or so left on payroll. A lot of airlines like Kalitta and even ATA who fly to places like West Bumblefuq and Al-Dirtpatch still use PFE's because they're able to sign off logbooks in places where it's unlikely to have a licensed AMT.

Ironically, the reason that mechanics got kicked out of the cockpit was ALPA -- they convinced Eastern's management that pilots could do just as well of a job in monitoring aircraft systems as the FE could. When the FEIA went on strike at Eastern in 1962, ALPA jumped at the chance to take over those jobs (scabbing/raiding the FEIA is one of the key reasons APA decided to split off from ALPA).

Even more ironically, watering down the role of the FE is what prompted the FAA to reconsider the requirement to have a three man crew. Since the FE was an insignificant position as ALPA purported it to be, they chose to certify the DC-9 and 737 as two man cockpits. With that foot in the door, every commercial airframe certified since then has been a two man cockpit.

Two stripers were mechanics, the three stripers were pilots. As far landing the plane, familiarity with the controls would make the FE more qualified than a flight attendant.

At one time they had five man cockpits. Two pilots, engineer, navigator and radioman. Did the pilots really screw the FEs or was it technology? Will the pilot be next? The technology already exists to get rid of at least one pilot. After all they dont even call it piloting anymore, they call it Flight deck management. Just have one pilot there and remote capability to land the plane from the ground, like a drone, if the pilot becomes incapacitated. Its getting to the point where the second pilot is there to keep the other one company.When you think of how often it happens and how much money they would save its inevitable.

 

[TWAnr]

Since the FE was an insignificant position as ALPA purported it to be, they chose to certify the DC-9 and 737 as two man cockpits. With that foot in the door, every commercial airframe certified since then has been a two man cockpit.

Weren't the 747-100 and 747-200, as well and the DC10 and L1011 certified after the DC9 and 737?

Those all had three persons cockpits.

I don't know about the original A300 which started flying in 1974 (not the A300-600), but I believe it was also crewed by two pilots and a flight engineer.

 

[operaations]

I Thought AA pilots where better than everyone else. Kind of god like there is no way they could become incapacitated. What happens if a pilot becomes incapcitated while using the High Speed internet at the layover hotel. or sitting in the First Class Mandated seat . oooo noo i pray that would never happen. I remember Rank Has its Privlidges