PHL-VCE 10/23

[kubotapilot]

And here we are once again folks, yet another transatlantic turnback. A/C 248, PHL-VCE returned after almost making it to the canadian maritimes and then held for several hours to b/o fuel.

Tried to re-crew after midnight and with no takers, flight cancelled. :angry:

What I would give for the grand Stephen Wolf days when we actually won awards for our excellent travel product. Now, along with the closing of the Envoy Lounge, we can't even seem to run an international operation on a regular basis. No spare aircraft / crews.

But its ok. On a spreadsheet it looks good to run the op with outdated / understaffed equipment. I wonder how good it looked to those poor suckers (oops, i mean passengers) who gave their hard earned $$ for a flight to VCE last night?

Lets see how quickly this thread derails into a labor issue...MOVE2CLT, etc... any takers out there for the first salvo?

 

[Keroseneuser]

And here we are once again folks, yet another transatlantic turnback. A/C 248, PHL-VCE returned after almost making it to the canadian maritimes and then held for several hours to b/o fuel.

Tried to re-crew after midnight and with no takers, flight cancelled. :angry:

What I would give for the grand Stephen Wolf days when we actually won awards for our excellent travel product. Now, along with the closing of the Envoy Lounge, we can't even seem to run an international operation on a regular basis. No spare aircraft / crews.

But its ok. On a spreadsheet it looks good to run the op with outdated / understaffed equipment. I wonder how good it looked to those poor suckers (oops, i mean passengers) who gave their hard earned $$ for a flight to VCE last night?

Lets see how quickly this thread derails into a labor issue...MOVE2CLT, etc... any takers out there for the first salvo?

What was the reason for the turnback? Sounds like some failure occured that made the a/c non etops.

 

[luvn737s]

No takers? They refused an airworthy aircraft?

Ah, yes, more attrition!

 

[SparrowHawk]

And here we are once again folks, yet another transatlantic turnback. A/C 248, PHL-VCE returned after almost making it to the Canadian maritime's and then held for several hours to b/o fuel.

Tried to re-crew after midnight and with no takers, flight cancelled. :angry:

What I would give for the grand Stephen Wolf days when we actually won awards for our excellent travel product. Now, along with the closing of the Envoy Lounge, we can't even seem to run an international operation on a regular basis. No spare aircraft / crews.

But its ok. On a spreadsheet it looks good to run the op with outdated / understaffed equipment. I wonder how good it looked to those poor suckers (oops, i mean passengers) who gave their hard earned $$ for a flight to VCE last night?

Lets see how quickly this thread derails into a labor issue...MOVE2CLT, etc... any takers out there for the first salvo?

There was a point in time where US Airways had something like 5000 flights to Europe without a cancel. Clearly those days have passed quietly into the night.

Unlike a lot of critics I actually "get" the need to control costs in a down economy with volatile energy costs. That said I'd argue in the most forceful way possible that from a business perspective the area you don't skimp on is the Trans Atlantic Operations & Hawaii. These flights are where the traveling public makes their decisions on who they fly. For many leisure travelers a trip to Hawaii or Europe are once or twice in a lifetime events. Make those events positive and the next time they need to take a quick trip to say PHL-MCO they don't even shop WN or others they just book with US.

There is a whole bunch of people like my sister out there. She flies 4 to 7 times a year, not enough to earn Elite Status but still a nice little chunk of business. She lives about 40 miles from PHL and chooses to drive 80 miles to EWR to fly CO. I asked her why and she told me how when she had to to go to LAX her boss upgraded her to F and it was such a pleasant experience she stayed with them. She always jokes about "Slumming with my Brother on US Airways" if we take a family vacation using miles. Sadly this is often the perception of US Airways and Holy Mother of God don't get her boss started on US. I don't know what happened but she told me she'd rather drive.

Point is in all of this that on a TATL flight the operation has to be near flawless IMO in order to keep and attract people who actually pay for Envoy Class (More than you'd think) plus keeping the back of the plane full as well. You do that with above average reliability and impeccable service. The problem with this gang never changes because they never look up from the spreadsheet long enough to think like a Salesperson and to go out and market the damn product. Nowhere in the operation is the phrase, "Knowing the price of everything and the value of nothing" more obvious then it is on TATL and Hawaii. How many future dollars did US blow off the table last night? Can't quantify it on a spreadsheet so frankly they don't care as any future business would likely be next quarter and these folks can only think in 90 day intervals.

 

[kubotapilot]

ahhh, I knew it wouldn't take long!

No takers? They refused an airworthy aircraft?

Ah, yes, more attrition!

 

[SparrowHawk]

ahhh, I knew it wouldn't take long!

That's why I call them "Pile Its" instead of pilots now. That's all they know how to do. They are like Monkeys in zoo flinging poo at each other and then they "Pile it" all up and heave it back. Thus the name "Pile It's" and their "Monkey See, Monkey Do" behavior.

Why act surprised it's been going on for over 3000 pages?

 

[Art at ISP]

There comes a point when cutbacks become more expensive than their projected savings. Case in point stripping a flagship segment of your product bare. What looks good on a spreadsheet does not necessarily save you money in the real world.

While other carriers are improving and evolving their international service to attract more premium revenue, as usual US is going in the other direction...between the closing of the Envoy lounges and inadequate planning/staffing for irregular ops such as this, they again fulfill their penny wise pound foolish reputation...again, perception is reality to most, and since it APPEARS they dropped the ball, that is what most will believe..

To be fair, it is more than possible that a competitor in the same situation might have been equally unable to replace the aircraft and/or crew, but I would imagine that regardless of the carrier, the folks on this flight would probably go out of their way to avoid the offending carrier in future.....

Do we know the cause for the diversion?

And shame on the poster who tried to hijack this thread again.....how more unprofessional and immature can you be?

 

[Harry Callahan]

Isn't a/c 248 "old stinky" ?

 

[SS255]

Nowhere in the operation is the phrase, "Knowing the price of everything and the value of nothing" more obvious then it is on TATL and Hawaii.

This may be a bit off-topic, but I was at a screening of THE RUM DIARY last week, and one of the characters (it may have been Johnny Depp -- I can't remember) uttered this quote!!! I finished off the quote out loud, and the guy sitting next to me was impressed!!!

 

[Dont call me Shirley]

There was a point in time where US Airways had something like 5000 flights to Europe without a cancel. Clearly those days have passed quietly into the night.

......................... the area you don't skimp on is the Trans Atlantic Operations & Hawaii. These flights are where the traveling public makes their decisions on who they fly. For many leisure travelers a trip to Hawaii or Europe are once or twice in a lifetime events. Make those events positive and the next time they need to take a quick trip to say PHL-MCO they don't even shop WN or others they just book with US.

T

Point is in all of this that on a TATL flight the operation has to be near flawless IMO in order to keep and attract people who actually pay for Envoy Class (More than you'd think) plus keeping the back of the plane full as well. Y

(I was going to mention the 5000+ flights, but you stole my line. Those days are long gone)

Take a look at how US fares on skytrax.com. Yes, it's rather Euro-centric, but offers a good perspective on how US is perceived by people from across the pond.(the legroom, or lack thereof, on the 330 is often noted as is the lack of domestic IFE)) It is rather sad to look at, even though there are some good reviews, too.

(It also seems that my experience from a few months back of only one beverage service on a long haul flight was not unique)

http://www.airlinequality.com/Forum/us_air.htm

 

[AstroLounge]

There was a point in time where US Airways had something like 5000 flights to Europe without a cancel. Clearly those days have passed quietly into the night.

Unlike a lot of critics I actually "get" the need to control costs in a down economy with volatile energy costs. That said I'd argue in the most forceful way possible that from a business perspective the area you don't skimp on is the Trans Atlantic Operations & Hawaii. These flights are where the traveling public makes their decisions on who they fly. For many leisure travelers a trip to Hawaii or Europe are once or twice in a lifetime events. Make those events positive and the next time they need to take a quick trip to say PHL-MCO they don't even shop WN or others they just book with US.

There is a whole bunch of people like my sister out there. She flies 4 to 7 times a year, not enough to earn Elite Status but still a nice little chunk of business. She lives about 40 miles from PHL and chooses to drive 80 miles to EWR to fly CO. I asked her why and she told me how when she had to to go to LAX her boss upgraded her to F and it was such a pleasant experience she stayed with them. She always jokes about "Slumming with my Brother on US Airways" if we take a family vacation using miles. Sadly this is often the perception of US Airways and Holy Mother of God don't get her boss started on US. I don't know what happened but she told me she'd rather drive.

Point is in all of this that on a TATL flight the operation has to be near flawless IMO in order to keep and attract people who actually pay for Envoy Class (More than you'd think) plus keeping the back of the plane full as well. You do that with above average reliability and impeccable service. The problem with this gang never changes because they never look up from the spreadsheet long enough to think like a Salesperson and to go out and market the damn product. Nowhere in the operation is the phrase, "Knowing the price of everything and the value of nothing" more obvious then it is on TATL and Hawaii. How many future dollars did US blow off the table last night? Can't quantify it on a spreadsheet so frankly they don't care as any future business would likely be next quarter and these folks can only think in 90 day intervals.

Very GOOD points.......but TELL Us something WE do Not know. You can only expect So Much from Circus Clowns that treat an airplane like the jalopy featured in "ChittyChittyBangBang". Travelpro has sung that CHORUS for Years <lol>. The 767 is a D-O-G that needs to be taken OUT of it's Misery as much if not more than COMPETENT Management needs to roam the Rio Salado.

 

[AstroLounge]

There was a point in time where US Airways had something like 5000 flights to Europe without a cancel. Clearly those days have passed quietly into the night.

Unlike a lot of critics I actually "get" the need to control costs in a down economy with volatile energy costs. That said I'd argue in the most forceful way possible that from a business perspective the area you don't skimp on is the Trans Atlantic Operations & Hawaii. These flights are where the traveling public makes their decisions on who they fly. For many leisure travelers a trip to Hawaii or Europe are once or twice in a lifetime events. Make those events positive and the next time they need to take a quick trip to say PHL-MCO they don't even shop WN or others they just book with US.

There is a whole bunch of people like my sister out there. She flies 4 to 7 times a year, not enough to earn Elite Status but still a nice little chunk of business. She lives about 40 miles from PHL and chooses to drive 80 miles to EWR to fly CO. I asked her why and she told me how when she had to to go to LAX her boss upgraded her to F and it was such a pleasant experience she stayed with them. She always jokes about "Slumming with my Brother on US Airways" if we take a family vacation using miles. Sadly this is often the perception of US Airways and Holy Mother of God don't get her boss started on US. I don't know what happened but she told me she'd rather drive.

Point is in all of this that on a TATL flight the operation has to be near flawless IMO in order to keep and attract people who actually pay for Envoy Class (More than you'd think) plus keeping the back of the plane full as well. You do that with above average reliability and impeccable service. The problem with this gang never changes because they never look up from the spreadsheet long enough to think like a Salesperson and to go out and market the damn product. Nowhere in the operation is the phrase, "Knowing the price of everything and the value of nothing" more obvious then it is on TATL and Hawaii. How many future dollars did US blow off the table last night? Can't quantify it on a spreadsheet so frankly they don't care as any future business would likely be next quarter and these folks can only think in 90 day intervals.

Very GOOD points.......but TELL Us something WE do Not know. You can only expect So Much from Circus Clowns that treat an airplane like the jalopy featured in "ChittyChittyBangBang". Travelpro has sung that CHORUS for Years <lol>. The 767 is a D-O-G that needs to be taken OUT of it's Misery as much if not more than COMPETENT Management needs to roam the Rio Salado.

 

[SparrowHawk]

Very GOOD points.......but TELL Us something WE do Not know. You can only expect So Much from Circus Clowns that treat an airplane like the jalopy featured in "ChittyChittyBangBang". Travelpro has sung that CHORUS for Years <lol>. The 767 is a D-O-G that needs to be taken OUT of it's Misery as much if not more than COMPETENT Management needs to roam the Rio Salado.

Indeed you and travel Pro have been singing this song for quite some time. Keep singing some how some way somebody might be listening to you and agree.

However, there is an old saying in racing, "You run what ya brung". US has Chitty Chitty Bang Bang and no prospects for immediate relief. Only thing they can do is maintain the hell out of them and keep them as clean and fresh as possible until the Airbus 350 is delivered.. I don't like it but that's the reality. Does it make sense to go out and try to find some used planes that might suck even more?

 

[Dont call me Shirley]

Only thing they can do is maintain the hell out of them and keep them as clean and fresh as possible until the Airbus 350 is delivered.. I don't like it but that's the reality. Does it make sense to go out and try to find some used planes that might suck even more?

That reminds me of a few years ago ( in CCY days, pre-Tempe) the company did look for some second hand 767s (including even -300s). They could not find anything up to acceptable standards at an acceptable price. Someone from OCC told me some of the planes involved were from EVA in Taiwan and that the folks from maint/engineering pretty much ran away from those aircraft, screaming.

 

[crazystnic]

That reminds me of a few years ago ( in CCY days, pre-Tempe) the company did look for some second hand 767s (including even -300s). They could not find anything up to acceptable standards at an acceptable price. Someone from OCC told me some of the planes involved were from EVA in Taiwan and that the folks from maint/engineering pretty much ran away from those aircraft, screaming.

\

yeah but Miami air can fly new 737's and Vietnam airlines can order Dreamliners....