Old Caf Sea King Accident

[Blackbeard]

Reading the recent thread with a lot of discussion on Vortex Ring State reminded me of an accident that the CAF had about ten years ago with a Sea King at an airshow in the States.

I remember seeing the TV footage at the time.

Would anyone out there have any info regarding that incident? Nothing sensitive, no names, just time, place and factors involved. Or is there a website where the military publishes the findings of such accidents.

While I am on the topic, does anyone had a web address where I could get more info on the V22 Osprey VRS accident of May 2000? This was the one that bought about the grounding of the V22's.

 

[gannet]

I don't know too many particulars ref wx at the time, but I do know that the pilot flying stated in his disposition that he was unaware of VRS and consequently didn't know how to get out of it. This was a year or two before I did Portage, so when I went through, the instructors showed the footage of the crash, briefed us extensively on the phenomenon and how to get out of it, then told us if it ever happened to us, we couldn't claim we didn't know about it and how to get out.

It happened at an airshow in New England, I think it was '92. Anything else I add would be just guesses, so I'll leave it to one of the SeaKing drivers to fill in the other blanks.

 

[Mark Dip]

Schenectady (Sp?) New York.

Try looking on the gov. canada site it should be all there, somewhere due to the freedom of information act.

Sorry no link, yet.

It is an interesting case study from a variety of aspects.

 

[Bullet Remington]

Gannet:

T'was a beautiful day, wx wise.

This incident happened about a year or so after I got drafted to YZX, for the second time.

If memory serves me correctly, and after yesterday at the Legion, I wouldn't bank on it! :blink:

Friend of mine was sitting in the door, NOT strapped in, when it lifted off. Appearently, the airshow organizer wanted the machine moved to provide some clearance/space for a couple of planks that had to move.

If I recall correctly, the Boss Driver lifted off, hovered for a while and as he was translating, or attempting to translate, he lost an engine. got caught in VR and the machine came down like a lead balloon.

If you have a look at that film again, (if ya find it, please let me know where) you'll note that the T/R is spinning like a Banshe in heat, while the machine is turning the opposite direction. Forgot the driver's name.

Darned Old Timers setting in!

Anybody else recall this in a little more detail??

CTD:

E mail me and I'll provide you with a name of one of the Puzzle Palace guys who may be able to provide a great deal more insight into this. Then again, he's getting older and a tad more slower as well!

 

[Mark Dip]

Correct with having to move the machine at the request of the Airshow committee. This was done in order to accomadate some other aircraft on the ground for the static display portion of the show. The big question always was , "Was it necessary to go flying or could a tow bar have been found?". Hindsight is, as always, a perfect 20/20.

In either case the decision was made to go flying. They took off and did some sight seeing while the aircraft on the ground were re-arranged. The Sea King then returned to the field and had to wait for one reason or another and the AC decide to do that in an out of ground effect hover. While in the hover the aircraft unintentionally descended into it's own wing tip vortices and unfortunately entered into Vortex Ring State. The altitude of the machine did not allow the pilot to carry out a recovery and as a result the aircraft impacted the ground at a high rate of descent.

The AC was very forthcoming during the investigation, many lessons were learned, and subsequently new procedures and training initiatives were implemented by the CAF to prevent this from happening again. I believe that the AC is now a public speaker and he draws from his past experiences, in particular this accident.

 

[Bullet Remington]

MarK;

You may be correct. I don't recall him flying around. I do recall watching him lift off, and do an assertive landing. Sorry, don't mean to provide false information. Nor was my intent to slam the driver, so don't nobody go taking it that way, please.

As I stated previously, memory ain't as good as it could be. That incident happened, what 11 / 12 years ago. Jasus byse, I got trouble remembering what I ate for breakfast! Geez, come to think of it, I wonder if I even ate breakfast!!


Gotta go check with the Missus to see if I'm hungary!

 

[downwash]

I know when those fishy fliers used to do their helicopter conversion in Rivers, they were taught VR, but can't speak to what took place after the circus moved to Portage. It's awful hard to believe it wouldn't have been covered, though. BUT, a military that would allow the kind of stuff, present or planned, I've been reading about all over this forum wouldn't surprise me with anything!!! :wacko:

 

[Fully Articulated]

Would anyone out there have any info regarding that incident?

Try here. http://www.airforce.forces.gc.ca/dfs/docs/...ports/fti_e.asp

It's your web page as a taxpayer.

 

[Blackbeard]

Thanks for the info guys, and also the web page links.
All great stuff.
Also thanks for the PM Bladestrike. See my PM back.

I always thought this a classic example of VRS, although I only saw the news clip of the accident the one time.

It is quite surprising how little training/teaching onus is put on this subject considering the regularity with which accidents occur due to VRS. Especially when you think how much time we spend training for tail rotor failures/jammed pedals which happen only rarely.

Having flown many years of seismic and logging I have experienced VRS many times and it is not a very frightening phenomenon if you are prepared and recognise the incipient stages.

On the training side, I am not aware of how the training syllabus handles this matter nowadays, although I do believe that it has to be discussed during a PPC ride.

When I did my helicopter commercial 25+ years ago (showing my age here) I remember that I had to demonstate VRS to the examiner. All we actually did is slow the aircraft to close to a hover downwind until it started to shake and carry on. All the examiner wanted to see is that I lowered the collective and poled the nose over. I still believe the training I received then on this subject is some of the most valuable I ever had.

Anyway, I still believe that VRS is a much underated subject. One that need not be a big deal with the right trainiing.