J4J - RJ Update

[USA320Pilot]

Philip Osterhus, US ALPA J4J Coordinator, wrote the following update for US Airways pilots that was published today.

Best regards,

Chip

JETS FOR JOBS UPDATE

Here is a summary of my conversation with Lyle Hogg yesterday, followed by a RUMORS section with unconfirmed information:

MESA

Mesa emailed US Airways on Monday night, the 4th, that there would be a class of 6 C/O and 6 F/Os starting Aug 18 (initially the class was to start the 14th, but Mesa called Wednesday and changed it to the 18th). Hogg’s office started making calls on Wednesday, the 6th to fill the class. They plan to close the class by noon Friday the 8th. Hogg is waiting for a response from Mesa on the tail number(s) associated with this class, as well as Mesa’s explanation of when the 6 known backfill vacancies (from the 6 known resignations) will be filled in accordance with the J4J Protocol.

PHL domicile, with a possibility of CLT in the future.

MDA

If the certification of the EMB 170 continues as planned, there will be an MDA class of 10 starting November 3, 2003. PIT Domicile.

After November 3, for
the foreseeable future, MDA will hire 30 pilots per month. All pilots will be type-rated in the EMB-170. Calling for these classes may begin around October 13, with the classes to be filled within about a week’s time. Ground School in PIT, simulator in Montreal.

Aircraft deliveries are scheduled for 3 per month beginning November 2003. Staffing will initially be about 10 pilots per airplane, with a longer term staffing of about 9 pilots per plane. If all goes as planned, by the end of 2004, MDA could have between 400 and 440 pilots.

PSA

Beginning September 17, a class of 16 pilots, 8 from Jets4Jobs, 8 from PSA will take a few days of company indoctrination (probably only J4J pilots will go to indoc) in Dayton, then attend training in Montreal. The next classes will be November 3, then November 17, and every two weeks after that, with 8 J4J pilots and 8 PSA pilots in each class.

Domicile will be Dayton initially, then PIT, with Akron and Knoxville as future possibilities. Hogg’s office will probably start calling pilots for the first PSA class in early September, planning to close it out by September 12.

 

[Furloughedagain]

Thank you Chip,

Furloughed pilots who have gone to work at other ALPA carriers do not have access to the AAA webboard and Phil's updates so I appreciate this news. Any idea what date-of-hire they're up to with Jets4Jobs?

Is MidAtlantic considered a part of mainline or will we be permitted to bypass MidAtlantic recalls and wait for mainline.

Thanks

 

[WSurf]

As for Jets For Jobs, will the wholly Owned pilots be able to get in on this. Looks as if PDT, and ALG will been done in the next 3-4 years if that long because of the jets placed at contract carriers and PSA (and MDA).
Also reading the restruc. Agreement, it seems to read that if a Wholly Owned Pilot flows to MDA, they go with full seniority (Date of Hire). That would mean a 10 year WO pilot would be senior to many furloughed Mainline guys. However they start at the bottom at Mainline if they make it there.
Anyone know how this will work?

 

[ONTHESTREET]

I was told that we can bypass MDA and it will not affect recall to mainline. This came from a source that is in a managment position.

Having said that, you know how that goes.

At any rate I do not think MDA will have many takers from the first groups to be furloughed. Most of the early outs have been flying other jobs for upwards of a year or more. And considering that they would most likly be recalled to MDA as an F/O that would mean a large paycut. Your experience is much more valuble to the corporate world than it is to MDA. Most left seat spots in 6 seat corporate turboprops pay better than Captain on the RJ's do, if you have the experience.

The regionals want the cheapest warm body they can find. Business owners and executives want to be sure to arrive in one piece with no wrinkles in their multi million doller aircraft and they pay accordingly for the experience.

 

[BoredToDeath]

I see congradulations are in order for all the furloughed Mainline pilots on successfully violating another ALPA carriers Contract.

The sections that will soon be violated at PSA:

Section 22 Seniority

A. Seniority as a pilot shall be based upon the length of service as a pilot with the Company commencing with the date of hire. Longevity for purposes of wages and benefits shall accrue from the date of hire.

D. Seniority shall govern pilots in the case of promotion and demotion, retention in the case of reduction in force, recall from furlough, assignment or reassignment due to expansion or reduction in force or scheduals, and choice of vacancies, provided the pilot meets the requirements for the conduct of the operation to which the pilot is assigned. This paragraph shall apply except as otherwise for in this Agreement.

I. Each pilot shall be on probation for the first 12 month of aggregate service with the Company commencing with the date of hire.

Section 24 Filling of Vacancies

B.
6. Except as otherwise provided, permanent vacancies will be awarded in accordance with seniority using the permamnet bids on file with the Company. If no bids are on file indicating a preference for a vacancy, the Company will assign the junior qualified pilot systemwide to fill the vacancy.

D.
1. All pilots, regardless of seniority, are entitled to base rights. The intent of granting base rights is to allow pilots based at a specific domicile to remain at that domicile in the event that equipment at that domicle is replaced by other equipment. Vacancies in a domicle created as a result of a one for one equipment substitution will first be awarded to pilots at the domicile in accordance with seniority. If such vacancies are not filled by pilots at the domicile, the vacancies will be awarded to pilots in accordance with system seniority.

F.
1.
a.When a pilot is bypassed for promotion (in pay or status) due to the operational needs of the Company, upon successful completion of his checkride (provided he successfully completes his initial operating experience and line check), the pilot will be paid the rate of the bypassed position retroactive to the bypassing pilot's checkride date. Such bypasses will not exceed 90 days.

Once again congrats.

 

[ONTHESTREET]

Boy i bet that took some time to type all that up. You left out the part where your Union agreed to it, so you could get the jets. Which by the way will quadruple the size of PSA.

Quit complaining, It took 400 sen. numbers to fill 40 J4J spots. At that rate only 200 or so of the 1800 will go to the J4J carriers. That kind of tells you how much the guys want to take your job. I do not want it, quite frankly it does not pay enough(see post above).

PSA will probably have to hire a ton of 800 hour guys to fill all those RJ's and you will move up very fast once the deleveries kick in.

By the way, is 328LS still the dog of the fleet?

 

[Bluestreaking]

328LS was returned a couple of years ago.

 

[ONTHESTREET]

----------------
On 8/10/2003 7:35:37 AM Bluestreaking wrote:

328LS was returned a couple of years ago.

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Well that was one that certainly needed to become a nice rattlesnake habitat in the desert. I bet they had about 10 mechanics too many on staff after she left!

I beleive it was one of the first ones off the assembly line, always bugs in the first few ever built. It was a good trainer for EICAS fault messages though....saw more on that thing than in the sim!

Last I heard PSA was up to 35 or so 328's, whats the count nowadays? I always liked them, a little rough on the maint. but it was a runner. Left the dashes Saabs, and 1900's sucking wind.

 

[BoredToDeath]

----------------
On 8/9/2003 10:37:39 PM ONTHESTREET wrote:

Boy i bet that took some time to type all that up. You left out the part where your Union agreed to it, so you could get the jets. Which by the way will quadruple the size of PSA.

Quit complaining, It took 400 sen. numbers to fill 40 J4J spots. At that rate only 200 or so of the 1800 will go to the J4J carriers. That kind of tells you how much the guys want to take your job. I do not want it, quite frankly it does not pay enough(see post above).

PSA will probably have to hire a ton of 800 hour guys to fill all those RJ's and you will move up very fast once the deleveries kick in.

By the way, is 328LS still the dog of the fleet?

----------------​

Only time will tell, but the order by no means "guadruples" the size of PSA. The increase for PSA pilots is only one plane, everything else is a replacement with the other thirty going to pilots on the APL.

On another note I hear LS is flying around for some corporate gig. Don't know who'd want it though.

 

[ONTHESTREET]

----------------
On 8/12/2003 10:17:37 PM BoredToDeath wrote:



Only time will tell, but the order by no means "guadruples" the size of PSA. The increase for PSA pilots is only one plane, everything else is a replacement with the other thirty going to pilots on the APL.



----------------​

You have to stop thinking that way. I very seriously doubt you will get even a quarter of the guys from the APL that will be required to fly those new jets. You might get a few "Make ends meet" types but I do not think there will be many permanant guys from the APL. As I said before, it does not pay enough.

All the 14 year U guys absolutly cannot afford to live for long on that pay. Not after so long on mainline. Not to mention their kids in college etc. The one pilot I know that accepted a J4J with MESA did it to keep a paycheck coming until he found a Corporate or other higher paying job. Right now the corporate world is scrambling to find enough high time guys to meet the insurance requirments for their jets. And they are paying better than J4J wages.

I know that is hard to beleive, given the airlines woes, but the insurance companies have gone nuts since 9/11 on rates. I would guess that your bottom half of Captains at PSA would be uninsurable for a Citation. Legally they have no problem but finacially the company could not afford to carry them as PIC. A $30,000 to $40,000 premium for a King Air 200 with a 7000 hour pilot is not uncommon. Toss a Jet in the mix and it gets worse.

I was called again today for a job that I turned down 2 months ago. He wanted to know if I knew anybody looking for a Capt. job that I personally knew.......He has been unable to find a pilot to fly a jet!!!! He has F/O's out the wazoo but nobody with the time for left seat.

Everyone that I know from around my senority at U has been flying for various companies for over a year now...none that I know will be accepting a J4J position. They are all flying Captain on a Corp. Jet or have been hired with another carrier. (Jet Blue, Polar, ATA etc.)

Sure you are going to get some guys come over. I doubt it will be the flood you think its going to be. The one question I keep hearing is "Can we bypass the J4J and not affect our mainline recall?" As long as the answer is yes....you do not have a problem.