Initial Ifr Ride

pitchlink · Dec 2, 2003

Hey guys,

I'm doin a CDN initial IFR ride in a BH06 next week and was hoping I might get some GREAT advice.

Many of you have been there, what was it like? What types of approaches did you do? What types of emergencies?? What should I know and expect for the ground portion??

Anything you can suggest so I don't have to look like an a$$ would be much appreciated!!

Thanks in advance,
pitchlink

gannet · Dec 2, 2003

So much depends on your examiner. One may tell you which aproaches you are to do while another will leave it up to you. If given a choice, of course you take vectors whenever you can get them, vectored ILS to vectored VOR/DME is nice, or GPS if you have the capability. Emergencies...well at least you won't have a tough time doing the Single Engine approaches.

Hydraulics off seemed popular, maybe talk through a governor failure. Its a pretty simple platform, so expect to have to talk through just about any of the failures. On the ground you better know alternate minimums, what does two precision approaches on separate runways mean for alternates. BECOMG, TEMPO, and PROB conditions for alternates are also good to know.

If you fly it with a 'competent co-pilot', don't be afraid to let him do most of the flying. Pass control to take clearances, handle emergencies, etc. If you have to do a hold, enter the hold, fly the first turn and pass control. Pass control for approach briefings. You'll be doing the money shot flying, but don't be afraid to use the other guy to whatever extent the examiner will permit. If you do it too much, he'll tell you, but he won't fail you for it. Of course you still have to monitor the co pilot's flying, but its easier than trying to open a plate, talk through an emergency, enter a hold and take an amended clearance all at the same time. Think of it like an autopilot. You use it until the examiner says, 'I'd like to see you do this.'

One last thing. Always listen for the expect further clearance time, and be prepared to explain your actions in a comm failure. A clearance isn't valid without a limit or a time and some examiners will try to trip you up with that. Break a leg!

pitchlink · Dec 3, 2003

Good day gannet,

Thanks for the help :up:

, I'll definitely use it to prepare myself for the ride. I'll give you a heads up on how it goes and any surprises.

Take care,
pitchlink

I FLY · Dec 4, 2003

there plenty amendments in the AIP regarding helicopter IFR, read them, sure as poopy he'll ask a question on the new stuff. Everything you do, say what you are doing and why, remember "time turn talk twist" at every beacon or FAF crossing. If you don't know the answer look it up( he can't fault you for looking something up, unless its an memory item for an emergency. and just remember to have all pubs. RFM and flight planning with you when you show up and your AIP and Ops manual if needed.

Good Luck

I FLY

Albert Ross · Dec 5, 2003

Be prepared for a non-standard hold (he's doing the lookout from the left) , and the answer o the the question "how do you check the validity of the cap general?" is at the top of the first page of the CAP (the dates should both match). Also, not only check that the valid date of your chart is OK, but that you both have the same date! otherwise, change the adf with your middle finger - only joking! just regard it as a normal ride wth a normal passenger, and engage brain before engaging mouth.

good luck

Phil

twitch · Dec 5, 2003

Some good points. A couple of points I will question are. â€œSorry I flyâ€ Keep the "talk" to the absolute minimum, answer only the question asked and keep the answer as short as possible, try not to explain unless you have too. Sometimes the less you say the less chance you have of making a mistake. I've done many many IFR/PPC's on guys and could always trip them up on something if they insisted on explaining more than I asked. One of the worst offenders was what to do with a "com fail" in IMC. Instead of just passing on the basics and calling it quits inevitability they would get tangled up on the expected app. time or the inbound heading thing especially on a published hold etc.

And as far as a non-standard hold on an initial ride goes. Unless itâ€™s the published hold I never would give a non-standard on an initial ride. I would use only the basic requirement and give lots of time for briefings and decision making.

The number one thing that gets people into trouble during a ride is trying to rushâ€¦. Take your time!

Good luck

twitch

tDawe · Dec 5, 2003

I think Gannet's advice about not being afraid to pass control over to your co-pilot is the key. I'm assuming group 4 rides are usually 2 crew, since I imagine the 206 doesnâ€™t have autopilot (a requirement for Single pilot IFR) When I flew my group 1 the autopilot was on most of the flight so that I could make sure everything was set up and ready for the next two turns and the next approach. My examiner was thrilled, she felt that the term PIC meant that you were in Command, then the Pilot, which means distributing the workload.

Albert Ross · Dec 8, 2003

I just did my initial, and got a non-standard hold, but then he knew that I already had a JAR FW rating, so maybe that influenced the decision.

The school I went to say they teach way over the TC standard, but things become confusing. Taking up the point about keeping answers to the absolute minimum, they expect you to start explaining all sorts of things to a straight yes/no question. Luckily, they had no machine and I had to do the ride elsewhere.

The 206 ride is indeed two-crew, and you will be expected to tell the "co-pilot" to change frequency etc - in theory, all you should need to do is fly, and take down the initial clearance and ATIS - he should do the rest.

one other tip I forgot to mention - get really familiar with the particular machine you are going to do it on - you won't look so good fumbling around for switches, etc.

Phil

pitchlink · Dec 12, 2003

Hey guys,

I PASSED!!!!!!!

It didn't do great but I got through it with a shiny new license to learn!!

Thanks for all the helpful hints and insight it's much appreciated!

My ride consisted of a standard hold, a full approach NDB, a full approach ILS and a vectored ILS with an attitude indicator failure, hydarulic failure and engine failure mixed in. My TC inspector was a wealth of knowledge and experience and was there to help me not torture me.

I look forward to the transition from VFR to IFR in the months to come and look forward to working with many of the fine IFR pilots our industry has to offer.

Once again, thanks for the help.

Have a safe & merry x-mas,
pitchlink

Bladestrike · Dec 12, 2003

Wow, that sounds like quite a ride! My TC Inspector gave me a hydraulics off on my initial, not so much to keep me working, but to help me out as I was overcontrolling like mad! It worked!

The engine out would have been fun in a 206!

Congradulations, and best of luck!

Albert Ross · Dec 13, 2003

Well done! Sounds like you got the perfect examiner - I got the hydraulic failure after the FAF on the NDB (extra time was the key)

phil

twinstar_ca · Dec 13, 2003

congrats, pitchlink!!! you likely wouldn't have got it if you hadn't earned it!!! :up:

The Real Batman · Dec 13, 2003

Congratulations Pitchlink!
It sounds like a regular IFR ride, so you did well! By that I mean you can be proud of your new shiny IFR ticket!

I am also glad to hear of your respect for the inspector. I guess I've been lucky for the past 30 years of flying - all but one of my examiners have shown the professional attitude shown to you. Transport has some great people working there and a ride is a great place to reinforce what you know, and maybe even learn a few new things!

But what I'm really impressed with, is your attitude:

It didn't do great but I got through it with a shiny new license to learn!!

I really like the 'licence to learn' thought process - you can fly with me anytime! Someday, you'll be in a position to share your knowledge, I'm sure!

:up: