F / C Fares Falling
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USA320Pilot
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Another example of the secular change effecting the industry, which will put further pressure on network carriers to lower unit costs to survive.
As a friend of mine recently said, "Tic-Toc-Tic-Toc... "
Respectfully,
USA320Pilot
As a friend of mine recently said, "Tic-Toc-Tic-Toc... "
Respectfully,
USA320Pilot
OP
BoeingBoy
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USA320Pilot,
"Another example of the secular change effecting the industry, which will put further pressure on network carriers to lower unit costs to survive."
The good old "static model of consumer behavior" thinking at it's best.
Jim
"Another example of the secular change effecting the industry, which will put further pressure on network carriers to lower unit costs to survive."
The good old "static model of consumer behavior" thinking at it's best.
Jim
coolflyingfool
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I do like the thinking of NWA. You lower and compete with AWA in some markets, mostly the non-stops from the hubs(PHX-DTW/MSP), and leave the others alone. That is smart because AWA probably doesn't carry enough F/C pax from LAX-DTW/MSP to make a dent on NWA's market share there. This is what I think US needs to do to keep the competition up and the hotly contested markets, but let those fares be higher on the uncontested ones.
OP
BoeingBoy
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I see it as a "maximize revenue" issue...
There are two extremes as far as pricing F/C goes. At the low end you price them the same as a coach seat - they'll all be snapped up quick. At the other end you put a very high price on them and sell none.
Somewhere in between there is a price point that creates maximum revenue - not per seat necessarily, but for the F/C section as a whole.
Jim
There are two extremes as far as pricing F/C goes. At the low end you price them the same as a coach seat - they'll all be snapped up quick. At the other end you put a very high price on them and sell none.
Somewhere in between there is a price point that creates maximum revenue - not per seat necessarily, but for the F/C section as a whole.
Jim
ClueByFour
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US hit a home run with the F sale to Vegas. It can be done.
(assuming you don't resize your F cabin on the primary equipment to one of the sale locations from 24F to 8F in midstream, but that's another story).
US has to get past charging 1200 bucks for a walkup coach to the coast before they can sweat the F fare, although there are people on this forum who have found that in some cases the F fare is now cheaper than the coach fare for the dates/destinations they need.
(assuming you don't resize your F cabin on the primary equipment to one of the sale locations from 24F to 8F in midstream, but that's another story).
US has to get past charging 1200 bucks for a walkup coach to the coast before they can sweat the F fare, although there are people on this forum who have found that in some cases the F fare is now cheaper than the coach fare for the dates/destinations they need.
OP
BoeingBoy
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Clue,
That's the first I've heard about how the F experiment to Vegas is doing - glad it's going well.
The same principle should work for a simplified coach fare structure. The bottom end is defined by the LCC's - some number of seats have to match them. The key is setting the other price points to maximize revenue, as opposed to maximizing ticket prices.
It's easy for me to sit here and talk in broad outlines, but I wouldn't have a "clue" as to how to go about it. Heck, I still think airplanes fly by smoke & mirrors. Maybe we need to hire someone with an advanced math degree.
Jim
That's the first I've heard about how the F experiment to Vegas is doing - glad it's going well.
The same principle should work for a simplified coach fare structure. The bottom end is defined by the LCC's - some number of seats have to match them. The key is setting the other price points to maximize revenue, as opposed to maximizing ticket prices.
It's easy for me to sit here and talk in broad outlines, but I wouldn't have a "clue" as to how to go about it. Heck, I still think airplanes fly by smoke & mirrors. Maybe we need to hire someone with an advanced math degree.
Jim
ClueByFour
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I'm basing my observation on the US F sale to Vegas on chats in the cabin on the way going and coming, with the FAs, and (most importantly) with the ATO and gate agents who had to figure out who to bump when they had more than 8 paid in an 8F cabin (fortunately, I found that a US1 who checks in a day early on a paid F fare won't be downgraded). Anyway, I'd gladly pony up $500 and change to guarantee the F seat to Sin City at booking, especially over a weekend.BoeingBoy said:
As for the smoke and mirrors, I have found that in the SEL category, if you push the lever thingy forward and pull the yoke thingy backwards, the plane tends to fly. I've been told that in modern trasport category aircraft, you don't really need to know anyway--that's why they put an FMS/FMC and the autopilot/autothrottle in the airplane
(I'm not poking fun, although the fact that such things are finally making their way down to the cost and size of airframe that I can afford and fly respectively is of no small joy to myself and many other weekend drivers)
OP
BoeingBoy
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Clue,
You've let the cat out of the bag - all we do is push the lever thingy forward and pull the yoke thingy backward. A word to the wise, though. I have found that if you pull that yoke thingy backward too far the airplane stops flying. When that happens I usually close my eyes and let go of everything.
Jim
You've let the cat out of the bag - all we do is push the lever thingy forward and pull the yoke thingy backward. A word to the wise, though. I have found that if you pull that yoke thingy backward too far the airplane stops flying. When that happens I usually close my eyes and let go of everything.
Jim
ClueByFour
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And here I thought that the HAL9000 in the Airbus would not let ya'll do thatBoeingBoy said:
.RowUnderDCA
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Open the pod bay doors.
Sorry, Dave, I can't do that.
Sorry, Dave, I can't do that.
ClueByFour
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So long as they keep equipping the guys in the pointy ends of my flights with the trusty Mark I eyeball and the requisite judgement and professionalism, I'm happy (although there is something reassuring about the fact that the Mark I eyeball is not subject to HAL's interpretation of "Normal/Abnormal/Direct/Alternate Law").
And, to keep in on topic, I'm more than happy to pay a reasonable fare to sit in F and enjoy 8 hours of bottle while somebody else is on the throttle. Especially on the way to Vegas. I think of it as playing CCY for a day--yes, Virginia, you to can lose thousands of dollars a day due to "poor management" (read, crappy craps judgement) and "Encroachment by the LCCs" (paying thru the nose for a room at Mandalay Bay instead of taking the comp at the "spartan" Luxor).
And, to keep in on topic, I'm more than happy to pay a reasonable fare to sit in F and enjoy 8 hours of bottle while somebody else is on the throttle. Especially on the way to Vegas. I think of it as playing CCY for a day--yes, Virginia, you to can lose thousands of dollars a day due to "poor management" (read, crappy craps judgement) and "Encroachment by the LCCs" (paying thru the nose for a room at Mandalay Bay instead of taking the comp at the "spartan" Luxor).
