Cal/ Il. State Rep. Try To Protect United.

[North by Northwest]

Market Pulse: Democrats seek 6-month moratorium on pension takeovers
Friday May 13, 10:06 am ET
By Rex Nutting


WASHINGTON (MarketWatch) -- Two Democratic lawmakers introduced legislation Friday to impose a six-month moratorium on further pension takeovers by the federal Pension Benefit Guaranty Corp. to give Congress time to pass pension reform. Reps. George Miller, D-Calif.(Congressman George Miller (D-California, 7th Congressional District) , has represented the 7th District of California in San Francisco's East Bay ..., and Jan Schakowsky, R-Ill., 9th district Chicagoproposed the moratorium after a federal bankrupcty court approved the transfer of some $6.6 billion in penion obligations from United Airlines to the agency. "All the major carriers will look to the United agreement to see if they can cut their own costs by dumping their workers' pensions," Miller said in a release. "And after the airlines, other industries will look to do the same thing."
Ya think they could be alittle more subtle in trying to give United an 6 month advantage? Sure we ought to have a 6 month moratorium...INCLUDING UNITED! Get the ink pens out folks. Get the telephone numbers of your Rep. and let them know what you think about this BS! :down: My message to them both via emailBGC pension takeover
Message: Your idea of a moratorium on PBGC pensions take over sounds like a great idea...just make sure you INCLUDE UNITED Airlines in it. Your not so subtle attempt to give UAL a six month fiscal reprieve from fair competition is dispicable to say the least. You and your colleague from San Francisco should be ashamed to call yourselves American politicians. You are the poster child for "protecting the home court pork". Every other solvent airline employee in this country should seek your removal from office(Jan Schakowsky) Chicago - (773) 506-7100 M-F 8:30-5:30 CST

Evanston - (847) 328-3399 M-F 8:30-5:30 CST

Park Ridge - (847) 298-2128 M-Th 8:30-5:30 CST Fri. 8:30-5:00 CST

Washington - (202) 225-2111 M-F 9-6 EST
[email protected] http://www.house.gov/htbin/wrep_findrep

 

[MNFlyer]

Could you explain just how this is advantageous to UAL as a corporation. This would be good for the employees since they would see more of their pension under a freeze of benefits. This would , however, be more costly to UAL, since they would have to continue to make payments under the moratorium plan.

 

[North by Northwest]

MN Flyer, this pretty much sums it up. "A federal bankruptcy judge on Tuesday approved the airline's (Ual) plan to terminate pension programs that cover 120,000 active and retired workers, clearing the way for the largest corporate-pension default in U.S. history.

Cash-strapped United will save an estimated $645 million a year from unloading its four defined-benefit plans on the PBGC, the government's pension insurer. United's pension funds have $7 billion in assets, but benefit liabilities total $16.8 billion. Of that $9.8 billion difference, the PBGC will cover $6.6 billion.

Had the PBGC rejected this deal, it would have made it nearly impossible for the airline to emerge from Chapter 11 bankruptcy as soon as this fall. (so much for FREE MARKET FORCES) Instead, the agency reversed its initial opposition in exchange for up to $1.5 billion in notes and convertible stock in a reorganized UAL Corp. The PBGC also expects that it will receive equity in UAL on its claim for unfunded benefit liabilities.

While the size of the PBGC's overall stake in United won't be known until the airline finalizes its bankruptcy reorganization plan, its holdings will likely give it some significant influence over decisions at United in the years ahead."

 

[synchronicity]

Market Pulse: Democrats seek 6-month moratorium on pension takeovers
Friday May 13, 10:06 am ET
By Rex Nutting
WASHINGTON (MarketWatch) -- Two Democratic lawmakers introduced legislation Friday to impose a six-month moratorium on further pension takeovers by the federal Pension Benefit Guaranty Corp. to give Congress time to pass pension reform. Reps. George Miller, D-Calif.(Congressman George Miller (D-California, 7th Congressional District) , has represented the 7th District of California in San Francisco's East Bay ..., and Jan Schakowsky, R-Ill., 9th district Chicagoproposed the moratorium after a federal bankrupcty court approved the transfer of some $6.6 billion in penion obligations from United Airlines to the agency. "All the major carriers will look to the United agreement to see if they can cut their own costs by dumping their workers' pensions," Miller said in a release. "And after the airlines, other industries will look to do the same thing."
Ya think they could be alittle more subtle in trying to give United an 6 month advantage? Sure we ought to have a 6 month moratorium...INCLUDING UNITED! Get the ink pens out folks. Get the telephone numbers of your Rep. and let them know what you think about this BS! :down: My message to them both via emailBGC pension takeover
Message: Your idea of a moratorium on PBGC pensions take over sounds like a great idea...just make sure you INCLUDE UNITED Airlines in it. Your not so subtle attempt to give UAL a six month fiscal reprieve from fair competition is dispicable to say the least. You and your colleague from San Francisco should be ashamed to call yourselves American politicians. You are the poster child for "protecting the home court pork". Every other solvent airline employee in this country should seek your removal from office(Jan Schakowsky) Chicago - (773) 506-7100 M-F 8:30-5:30 CST

Evanston - (847) 328-3399 M-F 8:30-5:30 CST

Park Ridge - (847) 298-2128 M-Th 8:30-5:30 CST Fri. 8:30-5:00 CST

Washington - (202) 225-2111 M-F 9-6 EST
[email protected] http://www.house.gov/htbin/wrep_findrep

[post="269244"][/post]​

Uh, you do realize that what they're pushing for is a restructuring of the pension funding requirements that would make it easier for United (and other companies in similar situations caused by the overall market decline and historically low interest rates) to keep their defined benefit pension plans.

They want to change the way the minimum funding requirements are calculated. Which would mean that UAL could, say, keep their plan (rather than do their distress termination) and would not have to dump as much money into it currently.

They're fighting against the tide, tho'. Defined benefit plans are being replaced by various flavors of defined contribution plan (even the old-fashioned "defined benefit" plans that remain in some form are now becoming "cash-balance" plans) throughout the corporate world, for better or for worse. Heck, did you ever think there'd be serious discussions about "privatization" of Social Security, especially after the market decline of '00-'01?

Of course, these reps are doing it mainly to protect UAL (Illinois and California, imagine that) and to score points with the union workers at said companies (who are constituents are likely predominantly Democrats). As I've already said, it ain't gonna happen, but at least they can say "we tried to help you, but..."

-synchronicity

 

[Dave]

You're kidding right? You're worried about UA having a 6 month advantage? Did the thought ever cross your mind that if our pensions are saved at UA, yours will be too?

Thanks for posting those numbers, I'll be sure to write and let them know that it's nice that someone is looking out for the American worker.

 

[MiAAmi]

Market Pulse: Democrats seek 6-month moratorium on pension takeovers
Friday May 13, 10:06 am ET
By Rex Nutting
WASHINGTON (MarketWatch) -- Two Democratic lawmakers introduced legislation Friday to impose a six-month moratorium on further pension takeovers by the federal Pension Benefit Guaranty Corp. to give Congress time to pass pension reform. Reps. George Miller, D-Calif.(Congressman George Miller (D-California, 7th Congressional District) , has represented the 7th District of California in San Francisco's East Bay ..., and Jan Schakowsky, R-Ill., 9th district Chicagoproposed the moratorium after a federal bankrupcty court approved the transfer of some $6.6 billion in penion obligations from United Airlines to the agency. "All the major carriers will look to the United agreement to see if they can cut their own costs by dumping their workers' pensions," Miller said in a release. "And after the airlines, other industries will look to do the same thing."
Ya think they could be alittle more subtle in trying to give United an 6 month advantage? Sure we ought to have a 6 month moratorium...INCLUDING UNITED! Get the ink pens out folks. Get the telephone numbers of your Rep. and let them know what you think about this BS! :down: My message to them both via emailBGC pension takeover
Message: Your idea of a moratorium on PBGC pensions take over sounds like a great idea...just make sure you INCLUDE UNITED Airlines in it. Your not so subtle attempt to give UAL a six month fiscal reprieve from fair competition is dispicable to say the least. You and your colleague from San Francisco should be ashamed to call yourselves American politicians. You are the poster child for "protecting the home court pork". Every other solvent airline employee in this country should seek your removal from office(Jan Schakowsky) Chicago - (773) 506-7100 M-F 8:30-5:30 CST 

Evanston - (847) 328-3399 M-F 8:30-5:30 CST 

Park Ridge - (847) 298-2128 M-Th 8:30-5:30 CST  Fri. 8:30-5:00 CST

Washington - (202) 225-2111 M-F 9-6 EST
[email protected]                                                  http://www.house.gov/htbin/wrep_findrep

[post="269244"][/post]​

Are you reading the article correctly???? This is good for anyone with a pension!!!

Reread the article, there is no advantage to UA. I want to pat these 2 Reps on the back for getting involved and looking out for the workers for a change.

 

[North by Northwest]

"Two Democratic lawmakers introduced legislation Friday to impose a six-month moratorium on further pension takeovers by the federal Pension Benefit Guaranty Corp. to give Congress time to pass pension reform" I think it is a great idea if they intend to void the PBGC take over of the Ual pensions. But not to impose a moratorium that excludes the pensions of the Ual employees. How fair it that? Perhaps I am digesting the information wrong? My take was "now that Ual has scraped the pensions of most of it's unions, lets put a temp stop to pension takeovers. Am I missing something?

 

[Dave]

In Aftermath of United Airlines Deal, New Legislation Would Impose 6 Month Moratorium on Transfer of Pensions to Federal Agency

Moratorium Intended to Give Congress Time to Sort Out Pension Mess
Friday, May 13, 2005


WASHINGTON, DC -- Representatives George Miller (D-CA) and Jan Schakowsky (D-IL) today moved to prevent bankrupt companies – including United Airlines – from unloading their workers’ pension plans onto the federal government for the next six months, enough time to give Congress an opportunity to reform the nation’s broken private pension system.



This is from Rep. George Miller's website. As you can see, it's designed to save the UAL pensions. Unfortunately, this bill will probably never see the light of day.

 

[maddogdriver]

N by NW is confused............

 

[AMFAMAN]

"Democrats seek to stall pension takeover deals Bill proposes 6-month moratorium on handovers to PBGC "

This bill introduced by the house (bill number not issued yet) would put a 6-month moratorium on "PBGC initiated terminations" - on single-employer plans with assets of $1billion or more - and in cases in which reorganization of contributing sponsors is sought in bankruptcy or insolvency proceedings. The house bill will have at the minimum 6 additional co-sponsors as early Tuesday of next week. They are waiting for a companion bill from the Senate. If this bill is passed, it will also be retroactive May 1, 2005.


http://www.amfa9.org/newsupdates.htm

 

[uafa21]

Looks like Politics might be playing a role in the pension issue. Maybe they are just figuring out that if Ua drops pensions and is allowed to continue to operate then all other airlines and OTHER companies with under-funded plans will be looking to drop pensions as well. What an effect that could be.

Ua may be a small portion of the entire pension system but it did make the headlines with the pension takeover by the PBGC.

 

[North by Northwest]

Look for the auto industry to join the airline pension disaster next. But thats OK...cause the U.S. Senate and Congress will NEVER have to face a pension crisis.

 

[limit]

Uh, you do realize that what they're pushing for is a restructuring of the pension funding requirements that would make it easier for United (and other companies in similar situations caused by the overall market decline and historically low interest rates) to keep their defined benefit pension plans.]

The result of the proposals will be a larger deficit in each individual under funded pension plan.
Just because you lowered the contribution amount the company makes, that does not mean a contribution will be made or that the plan will perform better. (See recent and past practices/results)
We’re in this situation not just because the stock market it’s not performing well, but rather due to the fact that companies have not been contributing an amount large enough to guarantee defined pensions.
You could face a situation where the Pension Benefit Guaranty Corp. we’ll be forced to assume pensions in the future that have a larger deficit, because the contribution amounts were lowered.
As a matter of fact I believe this is the only scenario you can count on with certainty.