APA & APFA did better then TWU in BK…WHY?

[bigjets]

How was it that the APA and APFA were able to do better for their members in bankruptcy then the TWU? 
 
Plus when coming out of bankruptcy the APA and APFA did a lot better for their members then the TWU did. 
 
Please try and give realistic responses to a serious question. Lets try and stay away from another "TWU sucks" thread.

 

[1AA]

1) Class and Craft union vs industrial union.
2) APA and APFA leadership is held accountable to its members.
3) APA and APFA represent specific group of employees.
4) APA and APFA can focus on member specific issues. The TWU is a catch all union.

 

[bigjets]

http://www.airlinedaily.com/feeds.html#http://news.google.com/news/url?sa=t&fd=R&usg=AFQjCNFWrss0MEfjRxpcSylv4Wh-m7lvhw&url=http://www.dallasnews.com/business/airline-industry/20140129-american-airlines-to-offer-veteran-flight-attendants-40000-to-deplane.ece
 
This early out for 1500 FA's was part of the MOU the APFA got for exiting BK, along with everything they gave up in BK, except their pension, but FA's over 50 got a 9% 401k contribution. What did the TWU get? a 4.3% raise after giving up profit sharing. 
 
It took 18 months minimum to get an A&P license, plus 3 years experience to get hired at AA as a mechanic , to become a FA, you have to be 21 and go through 3 months of training at AA. Not taking away anything from FA's they deserve more recognition from AA for their professionalism. This is to show that the TWU has not represented the AMT's to what I think we deserve.
 
It's the same company!!!!!!
 
THe TWU likes to say you can't compare AA to SWA, Fedex, or UPS, their different styles of airlines, ya they are the highest paid mechanics.  

 

[1AA]

APA negotiated a 14% 401K contribution before the MOU. In the MOU it increased to 16%.
This is without a single penny out of the APA members pocket.
 
APFA has a 10% contribution to their 401K. Nothing out of the APFA's pocket.
 
The TWU negotiated (if that is what really happened) a 5.5% 401K WITH a match from the employee. To get the 5.5% match the TWU member has to contribute 6% of his or her money.
 
APA-16%
APFA-10%
TWU-5.5% Lowest and out of pocket from employee. Double jeopardy.

 

[swamt]

IMO  the 401K match should be the same percentile for all employees.  At SWA it's 9.3% for all.  When you have different percentiles for different groups, you are in fact separating the employees, as the company wants.  And, it should be the same across the board rather it's is matched or provided by the company.  The TWU really screwed up by nego away the profit sharing for the raise.  They should have kept the PS and got the raise. BUT, there PS percentile should have been 8% with no match required (going by AA's math).  AND the TWU should have voted NO and went back to the table just like the pilots did, they (pilots) new the threats from the company were exactly that, only threats.  The TWU caved and gave in to all the concessions where the pilots actually stood up and fought, and got a better deal.  Craft unions are the way to go guys, and sure hope you guys will see the light some time this year, and get a clue.  Sorry bigjets, but your post obviously deserves a "TWU-sucks"  response. It just goes hand and hand...

 

[MetalMover]

 
 Lets try and stay away from another "TWU sucks" thread.

You can't be serious!
This is like asking a bear not to crap in the woods.

 

[AdAstraPerAspera]

IMO  the 401K match should be the same percentile for all employees.  At SWA it's 9.3% for all.  When you have different percentiles for different groups, you are in fact separating the employees, as the company wants.  And, it should be the same across the board rather it's is matched or provided by the company.  The TWU really screwed up by nego away the profit sharing for the raise.  They should have kept the PS and got the raise. BUT, there PS percentile should have been 8% with no match required (going by AA's math).  AND the TWU should have voted NO and went back to the table just like the pilots did, they (pilots) new the threats from the company were exactly that, only threats.  The TWU caved and gave in to all the concessions where the pilots actually stood up and fought, and got a better deal.  Craft unions are the way to go guys, and sure hope you guys will see the light some time this year, and get a clue.  Sorry bigjets, but your post obviously deserves a "TWU-sucks"  response. It just goes hand and hand...

 
 
Actually at AA, its not a 401k "match"… we get a company contribution. It's better than a match because the company pays into your 401k amount whether you match it with your own money or not.

 

[Thomas Paine]

Because the people running the TWU were more concerned about pleasing AA management than their members. You had a former member of AA management running the TWU(Jim Little)  and he appointed many management wannabes to run the show. Who were the two biggest "Concessions for jobs" people at the International from M&R? Videtich and his sidekick from California, Chris Oryiano. Well Videtich was let go a while ago, has anyone seen him at work? NO, And I heard last night that Oryiano quit and took a job with AA management. So the two guys who ran around the system saying that we should be willing to accept the worst deal in the industry to save jobs either quit or went into management before they would work under the conditions they as International Reps told us we should vote YES for.
 
Does that answer your question?

 

[Thomas Paine]

 
 
Actually at AA, its not a 401k "match"… we get a company contribution. It's better than a match because the company pays into your 401k amount whether you match it with your own money or not.

Not for us (TWU) it isnt. The company will automatically enroll us in the Super Saver and automatically deduct 3% of our wages and match it, and match up to 5.5% but we get ZERO Contribution from the company, only the worst match in the industry.

 

[Flying low]

Actually at AA, its not a 401k "match"… we get a company contribution. It's better than a match because the company pays into your 401k amount whether you match it with your own money or not.

Evidently your not in the TWU.

 

[NYer]

APA negotiated a 14% 401K contribution before the MOU. In the MOU it increased to 16%.
This is without a single penny out of the APA members pocket.
 
APFA has a 10% contribution to their 401K. Nothing out of the APFA's pocket.
 
The TWU negotiated (if that is what really happened) a 5.5% 401K WITH a match from the employee. To get the 5.5% match the TWU member has to contribute 6% of his or her money.
 
APA-16%
APFA-10%
TWU-5.5% Lowest and out of pocket from employee. Double jeopardy

 

IMO  the 401K match should be the same percentile for all employees.  At SWA it's 9.3% for all.  When you have different percentiles for different groups, you are in fact separating the employees, as the company wants.  And, it should be the same across the board rather it's is matched or provided by the company.  The TWU really screwed up by nego away the profit sharing for the raise.  They should have kept the PS and got the raise. BUT, there PS percentile should have been 8% with no match required (going by AA's math).  AND the TWU should have voted NO and went back to the table just like the pilots did, they (pilots) new the threats from the company were exactly that, only threats.  The TWU caved and gave in to all the concessions where the pilots actually stood up and fought, and got a better deal.  Craft unions are the way to go guys, and sure hope you guys will see the light some time this year, and get a clue.  Sorry bigjets, but your post obviously deserves a "TWU-sucks"  response. It just goes hand and hand...

 
The pilots received basically the same deal they turned down, but please give us the details of how they made out so much better if that's your opinion.
 
And the APA was the first to lower the 15% profit sharing to 5%.
 
The APA and APFA enjoy a piece of leverage that we do not in the TWU. They didn't face the threat of being outsourced, therefore they didn't have to face the fight to keep as many positions as possible while facing a threat of losing over 10K jobs.
 
If you guys want to bring these comparisons then at least tell the entire story. We don't all face the issues.

 

[Rogallo]

You're not gonna stop the industry trend of outsourcing overhaul maint.
 
So why do the line mechanics have to pay for that trend? 

 

[1AA]

 
 
The pilots received basically the same deal they turned down, but please give us the details of how they made out so much better if that's your opinion.
 
And the APA was the first to lower the 15% profit sharing to 5%.
 
The APA and APFA enjoy a piece of leverage that we do not in the TWU. They didn't face the threat of being outsourced, therefore they didn't have to face the fight to keep as many positions as possible while facing a threat of losing over 10K jobs.
 
If you guys want to bring these comparisons then at least tell the entire story. We don't all face the issues.

Outsourced? so what do you think transferring mainline flying to eagle is?
I guess you think it is OK for us to have a matching 401K and the other unions do not have to match. Read the topic title again. It is about how we did NOT do better than the APA and APFA. 16% and 10% is better than 5.5% Guess who has the 5.5%?  What happened to our profit sharing? So the APA still has profit sharing and we do not. Sounds like they did better than us.

 

[Frank Szabo]

How was it that the APA and APFA were able to do better for their members in bankruptcy then the TWU? 
 
Plus when coming out of bankruptcy the APA and APFA did a lot better for their members then the TWU did. 
 
Please try and give realistic responses to a serious question. Lets try and stay away from another "TWU sucks" thread.

The answer is rather elementary.
 
The APA and APFA "management" worked for their respective memberships - not freelancing as was Little Jimmy & company.

 

[Chuck Schalk]

why.......Because the TWU is the leading concessionary union for our class and craft