Anyone Familar With Amfa V. Iam At Cessna?

[jocko87]

Anyone heard anything about this yet?? I'm an avionics tech at the Cessna service center just doing a little reasearch. Currently the service center falls under the contract negotiated by the IAM for the factory across the street. Its not a bad contract as factory workers go but has no provisions for certification pay etcetc. 400 people at the service center against 12000ish in the factory isn't a fair comparision, esp. when we generate as much or more profit as the factory.

The main cruix for the split is the IAM has paid no attention to us until somebody called AMFA, then they want to be everywhere in our faces. They have already proven themselves worthless to us so a change has to be made. My main concern is getting our own contract seperate from the factory that is geared towards service people and everything else will take care of itself IMO. The current contract expires in Oct. and general concensus is that the factory is hurting from a negotiating ground, the service center is not.

Anybody that has heard anything or has any ideas please feel free to contribute.

 

[Checking it Out]

I thought amfa reps visited you sometime last year to do some organizing? What happened?

Are you a seperate contract group? What is your classification? amfa is for Mechanic's and considers everyone else splinter groups. in turn gives little attention to others.

With your contract coming up I hope you get involved and discuss some of the issues with the negotiators. involvement is the key.

Express your concerns.

 

[Bob Owens]

The laws governing you are different being that you are not under the RLA. As far as I know you could choose to organize under your own union if you so chose since you are at a different location and do different work.

 

[jocko87]

I thought amfa reps visited you sometime last year to do some organizing? What happened?

AMFA came to town and schedualed 3 meetings to fit shift scheduals. At the first one at 7am, about 50 IAM'ers gathered outside the door and harassed everyone going in, demanding entry saying that they would listen to amfa and tell us what we needed to know they got the meeting started and the IAM'ers started banging on the walls, flushing all the toilets generally making asses of themselves. finally, somebody pulled a fire alarm, then pulled it off the wall and the cops were called. the hotel asked amfa to leave, blaming them for the disturbance. As the service center folks were leaving there were 2 deffinate threats to family (charges filed) and general other threats etc. I think amfa is coming back out in march to redo the meetings. anyway, i think this pretty much ended any support the IAM had as the next day 55-60 people asked out of IAM putting service center membership at next to nothing.

As for our classification, we are almost all A&P's (except some avionics guys) working under a repair station ID#. amfa being for mechanics is what kinda appeals to everybody i think, it only makes sense.

The IAM has really been freaking out over this thing, we see reps everyday now trying to drum support. Nothing like losing your biggest contract time bargaining chip to make them want us.......

 

[Stop the Bus..I Want Off!!]

I thought amfa reps visited you sometime last year to do some organizing? What happened?

AMFA came to town and schedualed 3 meetings to fit shift scheduals. At the first one at 7am, about 50 IAM'ers gathered outside the door and harassed everyone going in, demanding entry saying that they would listen to amfa and tell us what we needed to know they got the meeting started and the IAM'ers started banging on the walls, flushing all the toilets generally making asses of themselves. finally, somebody pulled a fire alarm, then pulled it off the wall and the cops were called. the hotel asked amfa to leave, blaming them for the disturbance. As the service center folks were leaving there were 2 deffinate threats to family (charges filed) and general other threats etc. I think amfa is coming back out in march to redo the meetings. anyway, i think this pretty much ended any support the IAM had as the next day 55-60 people asked out of IAM putting service center membership at next to nothing.

As for our classification, we are almost all A&P's (except some avionics guys) working under a repair station ID#. amfa being for mechanics is what kinda appeals to everybody i think, it only makes sense.

The IAM has really been freaking out over this thing, we see reps everyday now trying to drum support. Nothing like losing your biggest contract time bargaining chip to make them want us.......

Very typical of industrial unionist. Don't be suprised if they bring the twu's coffin to town..... The only way we can bring our profession back to what it once was is for all mechanics to band together and fight. I've flown up and went through the Cessna plant. Neat place.
All mechanics under one umbrella.......AMFA now!!!

 

[TWU informer]

Industrial Union "professional" use coffins for intmidation at American Airlines:

 

[Checking it Out]

Thanks for the reply, You need to understand these IAM members are out to ptotect your best interest. Amfa has done alot of damage to the industry in the last 6 years. Yes they want to show you the good part of things. But you need to look beyond the store front and look inside.

Go ask some former members on latoff, Current amfa has over 33% of their members out the door. With the weak scope language they have negotiated in several of the contract groups they represent the lack of work soon follows.

Their whole concept is for local autonomy and the International for organizing. Service after the fact is lacking.

Expect little help in Negotiations from them and since your contract is coming up they will show up to disrupt them spreading half-truths. Currently amfa is in 3 negotiations and are making little headway. Another example is to look at the Alsaka contract they negotiated and see the benifits and language they gave up.

 

[jocko87]

Thanks for the reply, You need to understand these IAM members are out to ptotect your best interest.

Sorry, I need to throw the BS flag on this one, the IAM doesn't give a hoot about the people at the service center. They had maybe 30% membership and only about 3 dedicated members, however, when they faced the possibility of losing us for negotiations---oh boy, now they really care. You see, the problem is that the 400 people of the service center account for more pure profit then the 12000+ at the factory. I heard the numbers but its something like 150 million or so, just for the service center. try going into negotiations without that....you would start to care really quick.

Thats my main thing--just to get our own contract and everything will take care of itself--it would be alot easier to get raises etc. for 400 people with that kind of profit margin. The factory will get a crappy contract and I kinda feel bad about that but the seperation needs to be there.

 

[Hopeful]

CIO:

Do you honestly believe that the TWU has the members' best interests in mind?
I guess they could give a rat's ass about union dues, no?

 

[Bob Owens]

Thanks for the reply, You need to understand these IAM members are out to ptotect your best interest. Amfa has done alot of damage to the industry in the last 6 years. Yes they want to show you the good part of things. But you need to look beyond the store front and look inside.

Go ask some former members on latoff, Current amfa has over 33% of their members out the door. With the weak scope language they have negotiated in several of the contract groups they represent the lack of work soon follows.

Their whole concept is for local autonomy and the International for organizing. Service after the fact is lacking.

Expect little help in Negotiations from them and since your contract is coming up they will show up to disrupt them spreading half-truths. Currently amfa is in 3 negotiations and are making little headway. Another example is to look at the Alsaka contract they negotiated and see the benifits and language they gave up.

Thanks for the reply, You need to understand these IAM members are out to ptotect your best interest.

And they will tell you what is in your best interests.They may tell you that giving away benifits and taking pay cuts is in YOUR best interests but dont expect them to do the same.

Amfa has done alot of damage to the industry in the last 6 years. Yes they want to show you the good part of things. But you need to look beyond the store front and look inside.

Yes if you go to the thread marked AA mechanics pay vs the CPI you can clearly see the damage AMFA has done to the industry. Look at the spike in wages in 2001. It took the TWU twenty years to get wages down to where they were and with one contract at NWA AMFA successfully raised the expectations of mechanics that they should enjoy the same buying power that mechanics enjoyed in 1980. But fortunately, thanks to the economy, a fixed voting system and a massive fear campain orchestrated by the TWU, the TWU was able to lower expectations to get our decline back on track. As you can see if you ignored the AMFA spike and drew a line connecting 2000 to 2004 the trajectory of our decline resumed right where we left off.


Go ask some former members on latoff, Current amfa has over 33% of their members out the door. With the weak scope language they have negotiated in several of the contract groups they represent the lack of work soon follows.

Yes AMFAs language was weak but it is the most restrictive in the industry, most of us have no real enforceable scope language, instead we choose to simply lower our wages and benifits to whatever the company tells us to in order to keep the work in house. While you might think that you have a contract the fact is you really dont because the company and the union can change it whenever they like, without further ratification. So with the TWU we will deal with this cyclical industry not just with layoffs but by agreeing to long term concessionary contracts that keep us in a permanent state of austerity no matter how well the industry ends up doing you will continue to work as if we are in a depression. Thats exactly what happened in 1995-2001. That worked out so well that we put in another 6 year concessionary agreement in 2003. In fact we oipened up our 2001 contract midc term to bring in the most massive concessions ever in the labor movement.

Their whole concept is for local autonomy and the International for organizing. Service after the fact is lacking.

Wheras ours is for no real local autonomy. Instead power is concentrated in the International who the members never get to vote for or against. If the Locals speak out in their members expressed interests the International will simply remove their local officers. We (the TWU) do not believe that the members should have any say in their futures the International will decide whaty is best for us and we do not have the right to question their judgement. SErvice is not an issue because as far as the TWU/ATD is concerned they do not work for you. And they are right, they dont.

Expect little help in Negotiations from them and since your contract is coming up they will show up to disrupt them spreading half-truths. Currently amfa is in 3 negotiations and are making little headway. Another example is to look at the Alsaka contract they negotiated and see the benifits and language they gave up.

Yes and then compare that to what the TWU gave up at AA or never even got at Eagle or SWA or Triangle, Ogden, Worldwide etc. The average TWU member makes around $15/hr while the average AMFA member earns more than double that.

If you are an aircraft mechanic you should be in a union for aircraft mechanics. Go AMFA.

 

[Rusty]

Sorry, I need to throw the BS flag on this one, the IAM doesn't give a hoot about the people at the service center. They had maybe 30% membership and only about 3 dedicated members, however, when they faced the possibility of losing us for negotiations---oh boy, now they really care. You see, the problem is that the 400 people of the service center account for more pure profit then the 12000+ at the factory. I heard the numbers but its something like 150 million or so, just for the service center. try going into negotiations without that....you would start to care really quick.

Thats my main thing--just to get our own contract and everything will take care of itself--it would be alot easier to get raises etc. for 400 people with that kind of profit margin. The factory will get a crappy contract and I kinda feel bad about that but the seperation needs to be there.

jocko87, as you may have figured out, Checking it Out is an afl-cio twu officer and we are currently throwing the TWU out of our professions. There are a few more soon to be out of office officers hanging around on this board that you will likely hear from. Just giving you a heads up!!! Here is the AMFA National website and there is an area that you can print out an authorization cards if you like. Good luck on your endeavors!!!
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