i find it wierd that the airlines (and i''m speaking in the general sense) blame thier woes on everything else,9/11,The war,Bush and now SARS when will they stop running out of excuses and turn to the real problem Greed ,short-sightness and Incompotant mangement.
AMR to file Chapter 11 Today - News
- Thread starter joejett
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AAObserver
Member
- Apr 18, 2003
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This is roughly the same thing that has been said for the last couple of days. The more updated stories indicate that progress has been made and a potential deal has been reached.
Your thread title is extremely misleading.
Your thread title is extremely misleading.
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On 4/24/2003 11:25:22 AM tug_slug wrote:
Ive got a question,
Suppose the Unions and the Company come to some sort of an agreement, what about AA''s creditors? Are they going to be as willing to renegotiate their contracts?
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If given a choice between bankruptcy and no bankruptcy, creditors will take the "no bankruptcy" option, as long as the employees are on board.On 4/24/2003 11:25:22 AM tug_slug wrote:
Ive got a question,
Suppose the Unions and the Company come to some sort of an agreement, what about AA''s creditors? Are they going to be as willing to renegotiate their contracts?
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Creditors don''t want to enrich lawyers, bankers, accountants and consultants as much as some union members want to.
AAObserver
Member
- Apr 18, 2003
- 89
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KC, at this point not really unless the SARs scare and War issues go away immediately. But at least there is a chance of it, whereas without concessions BK is a foregone conclusion.
Without SARS and Iraq, AA insolvency with the concessions wouldn't even be an issue IMO.
Regardless, I think the union folks would be in much better shape if they negotiate their deals now instead of waiting for it to happen after a filing.
Without SARS and Iraq, AA insolvency with the concessions wouldn't even be an issue IMO.
Regardless, I think the union folks would be in much better shape if they negotiate their deals now instead of waiting for it to happen after a filing.
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On 4/24/2003 11:43:19 AM Ch. 12 wrote:
Try the economy. And the sad state of the economy can be blamed on 9/11, Bush, the war, and SARS. The airline industry is not the only industry hurting right now...they all are. Whatever personal vices you have should be ignored because the evidence is clear. The world is in a recession and the recession isn''t due to "greed, short-sightedness, and incompetent management."
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So what excuse do you have for JetBlue and SouthWest??On 4/24/2003 11:43:19 AM Ch. 12 wrote:
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On 4/24/2003 11:22:00 AM joejett wrote:
i find it wierd that the airlines (and i''m speaking in the general sense) blame thier woes on everything else,9/11,The war,Bush and now SARS when will they stop running out of excuses and turn to the real problem Greed ,short-sightness and Incompotant mangement.
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On 4/24/2003 11:22:00 AM joejett wrote:
i find it wierd that the airlines (and i''m speaking in the general sense) blame thier woes on everything else,9/11,The war,Bush and now SARS when will they stop running out of excuses and turn to the real problem Greed ,short-sightness and Incompotant mangement.
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Try the economy. And the sad state of the economy can be blamed on 9/11, Bush, the war, and SARS. The airline industry is not the only industry hurting right now...they all are. Whatever personal vices you have should be ignored because the evidence is clear. The world is in a recession and the recession isn''t due to "greed, short-sightedness, and incompetent management."
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WingNaPrayer
Veteran
AMR''s American Airlines could file for Chapter 11 today - report
FORT WORTH, Texas (AFX) - AMR Corp''s American Airlines may file for bankruptcy protection as early as today amid a worsening dispute with its unions, reported local newspaper St Louis Post Dispatch.
Two congressmen from the Dallas area told the newspaper late yesterday that the carrier is prepared to file for protection from creditors if it cannot resolve the dispute.
Unions are seeking to oust CEO Don Carty for withholding information about executive bonuses.
If it is left unresolved, there''s a pretty good chance the board will approve a Chapter 11 filing, congressman Martin Frost was quoted as saying in the newspaper.
A spokesman for American Airlines had no comment.
American has said as many as 9,000 more employees would lose their jobs if the airline files for Chapter 11, said the report.
[email protected]
FORT WORTH, Texas (AFX) - AMR Corp''s American Airlines may file for bankruptcy protection as early as today amid a worsening dispute with its unions, reported local newspaper St Louis Post Dispatch.
Two congressmen from the Dallas area told the newspaper late yesterday that the carrier is prepared to file for protection from creditors if it cannot resolve the dispute.
Unions are seeking to oust CEO Don Carty for withholding information about executive bonuses.
If it is left unresolved, there''s a pretty good chance the board will approve a Chapter 11 filing, congressman Martin Frost was quoted as saying in the newspaper.
A spokesman for American Airlines had no comment.
American has said as many as 9,000 more employees would lose their jobs if the airline files for Chapter 11, said the report.
[email protected]
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On 4/24/2003 11:22:00 AM joejett wrote:
i find it wierd that the airlines (and i''m speaking in the general sense) blame thier woes on everything else,9/11,The war,Bush and now SARS when will they stop running out of excuses and turn to the real problem Greed ,short-sightness and Incompotant mangement.
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On 4/24/2003 11:22:00 AM joejett wrote:
i find it wierd that the airlines (and i''m speaking in the general sense) blame thier woes on everything else,9/11,The war,Bush and now SARS when will they stop running out of excuses and turn to the real problem Greed ,short-sightness and Incompotant mangement.
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Try the economy. And the sad state of the economy can be blamed on 9/11, Bush, the war, and SARS. The airline industry is not the only industry hurting right now...they all are. Whatever personal vices you have should be ignored because the evidence is clear. The world is in a recession and the recession isn''t due to "greed, short-sightedness, and incompetent management."
KCFlyer
Veteran
- Aug 20, 2002
- 11,294
- 1,427
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On 4/24/2003 11:01:16 AM AAObserver wrote:
This is roughly the same thing that has been said for the last couple of days. The more updated stories indicate that progress has been made and a potential deal has been reached.
Your thread title is extremely misleading.
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AAObserver - I''ve been reading your posts these past several days. While many of them are a bit, shall I say, less than tactful, I believe that you speak a lot of truth. But do you really think that concessions will do anything more than delay a bankruptcy filing by AA?
On 4/24/2003 11:01:16 AM AAObserver wrote:
This is roughly the same thing that has been said for the last couple of days. The more updated stories indicate that progress has been made and a potential deal has been reached.
Your thread title is extremely misleading.
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AAObserver - I''ve been reading your posts these past several days. While many of them are a bit, shall I say, less than tactful, I believe that you speak a lot of truth. But do you really think that concessions will do anything more than delay a bankruptcy filing by AA?
...and as far as this thread on AA decalaring BK...it''s not just a few days old...this press release has been sent out practically on the hour every day for the last several months. It''s always the same story, too. Who knows what will happen, but it''s the same tired story every day.
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So what excuse do you have for JetBlue and SouthWest??
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So what excuse do you have for JetBlue and SouthWest??
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While WN may not be losing money at this time, their profits are way down.
And everyone points to WN/JB. Everyone wants a leader like those at WN & JB, but I highly doubt that they want to work WN/JB work rules and pay. Don''t the pilots at WN help with the turns? Isn''t it more of a team effort at WN? Does that team spirit exist and are the work rules so flexible at the other carriers?
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On 4/24/2003 11
05 AM 1AA wrote:
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So what excuse do you have for JetBlue and SouthWest??On 4/24/2003 11
05 AM 1AA wrote: ----------------
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It''s called "being better equipped to weather the storm". Just because there is a terrible economy, that doesn''t mean that every company in the world will collapse. It simply means that some have less exposure to the problems. WN and JB can weather the down-turn because:
A) Neither carrier has international service which is deeply affected by SARS and 9/11,
B) The public perception is that both of these carriers are significantly cheaper than the majors (FL can be lumped in this, too) and since there is less money to be spent, passengers choose the lower fare airlines.
C) JB was quite highly financed from the beginning and has a lot of fat that they can burn through.
D) Similarly, WN has few obligations and therefore doesn''t owe like other carriers do.
E) Both carriers are low-profile in the international community and therefore are even a less likely target for terrorists.
...I could go on. But if, as you state, airline management is responsible rather than the economy, then when did they get control of other industries such as telecom, health care, education, tourism, automobile, retail, etc to destroy them? I can''t even believe that you can''t see that there is a bad economy and that it is responsible for so much more than you give credit.
