AMR May Still File for Bankruptcy
- Thread starter wts54
- Start date
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On 5/15/2003 7:57:26 PM FWAAA wrote:
You want the truth?
It's because AA hates you. Hates your guts and the executives would destroy the company just because they hate you. That's why they demanded wage and work rule concessions from you. That's why you have to drive your 30 year old beater with over a million miles on it, despite probably making nearly $100k in recent years (unless you turned down all available overtime).
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Strange,On 5/15/2003 7:57:26 PM FWAAA wrote:
You want the truth?
It's because AA hates you. Hates your guts and the executives would destroy the company just because they hate you. That's why they demanded wage and work rule concessions from you. That's why you have to drive your 30 year old beater with over a million miles on it, despite probably making nearly $100k in recent years (unless you turned down all available overtime).
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Bob comes forward with an honest opinion and you respond with a negative and sarcarstic comment. It is obvious that as soon as this airline turns in a direction that will negatively impact yourself, the whining we have all done will seem like a walk in the park compared to what your attitude will the become.
I actually look forward to switching sides and blasting you with a taste of your own medicine.
Who is "AA" anyway?
I would bet the outcome will conclude, "WE" are or "were" the airline, not some outside entity which you like to make reference to all of the time!
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On 5/15/2003 7:57:26 PM FWAAA wrote:
You want the truth?
I would not expect it from you.
It''s because AA hates you. Hates your guts and the executives would destroy the company just because they hate you. That''s why they demanded wage and work rule concessions from you. That''s why you have to drive your 30 year old beater with over a million miles on it, despite probably making nearly $100k in recent years (unless you turned down all available overtime).
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Is that your informative response? Do you speak for AA?
What overtime?
On 5/15/2003 7:57:26 PM FWAAA wrote:
You want the truth?
I would not expect it from you.
It''s because AA hates you. Hates your guts and the executives would destroy the company just because they hate you. That''s why they demanded wage and work rule concessions from you. That''s why you have to drive your 30 year old beater with over a million miles on it, despite probably making nearly $100k in recent years (unless you turned down all available overtime).
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Is that your informative response? Do you speak for AA?
What overtime?
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On 5/15/2003 7
45 PM Bob Owens wrote:
Well maybe they should.
At JFK they keep at least 6 unlinked airplanes a day just sitting there.
Are they doing this systemwide?
Another 5 or 6 sit there and make only one flight a day sitting idle for as long a 24 hours between trips. This is a gross underutilization of equipement.
If they go BK they can walk away from those leases and get better rates on the rest of them. They can also walk away from the $1.2 billion AAdvantage program liability.
Construction is going on at the terminal at JFK again.
They still have their name stuck on Sports Arenas, theaters and sponsoring other events. Why? Marketing? I thought that with computers the only effective marketing technique was the lowest price?
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You want the truth?On 5/15/2003 7
45 PM Bob Owens wrote: Well maybe they should.
At JFK they keep at least 6 unlinked airplanes a day just sitting there.
Are they doing this systemwide?
Another 5 or 6 sit there and make only one flight a day sitting idle for as long a 24 hours between trips. This is a gross underutilization of equipement.
If they go BK they can walk away from those leases and get better rates on the rest of them. They can also walk away from the $1.2 billion AAdvantage program liability.
Construction is going on at the terminal at JFK again.
They still have their name stuck on Sports Arenas, theaters and sponsoring other events. Why? Marketing? I thought that with computers the only effective marketing technique was the lowest price?
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It''s because AA hates you. Hates your guts and the executives would destroy the company just because they hate you. That''s why they demanded wage and work rule concessions from you. That''s why you have to drive your 30 year old beater with over a million miles on it, despite probably making nearly $100k in recent years (unless you turned down all available overtime).
Well maybe they should.
At JFK they keep at least 6 unlinked airplanes a day just sitting there.
Are they doing this systemwide?
Another 5 or 6 sit there and make only one flight a day sitting idle for as long a 24 hours between trips. This is a gross underutilization of equipement.
If they go BK they can walk away from those leases and get better rates on the rest of them. They can also walk away from the $1.2 billion AAdvantage program liability.
Construction is going on at the terminal at JFK again.
They still have their name stuck on Sports Arenas, theaters and sponsoring other events. Why? Marketing? I thought that with computers the only effective marketing technique was the lowest price?
At JFK they keep at least 6 unlinked airplanes a day just sitting there.
Are they doing this systemwide?
Another 5 or 6 sit there and make only one flight a day sitting idle for as long a 24 hours between trips. This is a gross underutilization of equipement.
If they go BK they can walk away from those leases and get better rates on the rest of them. They can also walk away from the $1.2 billion AAdvantage program liability.
Construction is going on at the terminal at JFK again.
They still have their name stuck on Sports Arenas, theaters and sponsoring other events. Why? Marketing? I thought that with computers the only effective marketing technique was the lowest price?
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On 5/15/2003 8:12:04 PM RV4 wrote:
Strange,
Bob comes forward with an honest opinion and you respond with a negative and sarcarstic comment. It is obvious that as soon as this airline turns in a direction that will negatively impact yourself, the whining we have all done will seem like a walk in the park compared to what your attitude will the become.
I actually look forward to switching sides and blasting you with a taste of your own medicine.
Who is "AA" anyway?
I would bet the outcome will conclude, "WE" are or "were" the airline, not some outside entity which you like to make reference to all of the time!
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You're right. I sincerely apologize to Mr Owens and to you. Why did I post such a sarcastic response? Well, to be truthful, it was because of the outlandish opinion of Mr Owens. That, and the fact that over the past several weeks, some of the same points made by Mr Owens have been answered and/or refuted. But here goes:On 5/15/2003 8:12:04 PM RV4 wrote:
Strange,
Bob comes forward with an honest opinion and you respond with a negative and sarcarstic comment. It is obvious that as soon as this airline turns in a direction that will negatively impact yourself, the whining we have all done will seem like a walk in the park compared to what your attitude will the become.
I actually look forward to switching sides and blasting you with a taste of your own medicine.
Who is "AA" anyway?
I would bet the outcome will conclude, "WE" are or "were" the airline, not some outside entity which you like to make reference to all of the time!
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1. I doubt that AA is keeping six airplanes idle every day at every station systemwide. I haven't looked at each one, but I doubt it. Maybe eolesen could provide some confirmation.
2. AA could walk away from some airplane leases if it filed Ch11. But along with that benefit comes a cost. For UAL it was $248 million in the first quarter of 2003.
What about the bookaway that inevitably occurs with a bankruptcy filing? Wouldn't that hurt revenue? But then again, nobody in management at AA is smart enough to think that all the way through, are they?
Did you see how much better AA's Q1 yield was than UAL? If I recall, it was nearly two whole cents per mile better. Why be in such a rush to join them?
3. Why would AA cancel the AAdvantage program?? Mr Owens, are you aware that Citibank is AA's best customer?? Last year Citi bought nearly $900 million worth of AAdvantage miles - used to fill otherwise empty seats (if even used at all). Or used to upgrade to higher classes (when the traveler has no means of paying full J or F). It was probably this comment that caused my sarcastic and caustic response. Again, I'm sorry. But why on earth would you have AA walk away from nearly $900 million in annual revenue (especially revenue that entails almost ZERO in marginal expense)??? Are you on crack?
Have you ever spoken to someone who spends $20,000+ per year on AA (other than me, that is)?? If so, you might spend your lunch hours trying to find additional buyers for AA miles instead of harboring such ludicrous thoughts.
4. Construction is on again at the new JFK terminal because it is funded almost entirely with tax free bonds issued by the Port Authority. What this means is that others are financing the bonds in exchange for future rent payments by AA. In other words, it ain't costing AA very much dough right now to build it. It will cost in the future (when, hopefully, AA is cashflow positive rather than cashflow negative) but AA will be eating other carriers' lunch at JFK and will be able to afford it.
5. Advertising expenses. AA's ad budget has dropped each year since 2000. AA is spending much less than WN per pax. Why should AA cut advertising further? Would a cut in advertising increase revenue? I keep hearing from the organized workforce in this forum that revenue needs to grow as well as costs reigned in. Since advertising is one area that might actually enhance revenue, maybe AA should spend more??
Again, I apologize. I am truly sorry for my outlandish response.
Oliver Stone''s Apprentice
Veteran
- Aug 19, 2002
- 786
- 0
One month of stability doesn't mean we're out of the woods, but the same people who are crying "AA is going to file" are the same ones who were convinced that UAL and US were going to liquidate. They didn't.
The warning in SEC filings is boilerplate for companies in financial crisis, and it will continue to be there until there's enough evidence that the worst is indeed behind us.
It is a good thing we didn't pull our name off the arena. Millions of viewers saw the name "American Airlines" during the NBA playoffs this week, and if the Mavs keep winning, a few million more people will see it as well.
The warning in SEC filings is boilerplate for companies in financial crisis, and it will continue to be there until there's enough evidence that the worst is indeed behind us.
It is a good thing we didn't pull our name off the arena. Millions of viewers saw the name "American Airlines" during the NBA playoffs this week, and if the Mavs keep winning, a few million more people will see it as well.
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On 5/15/2003 9:46:12 PM FA Mikey wrote:
Miami has a number of a/c that sit idle and rotate in the system. Its sad to see this waste of utilization. Several A300's, 777's a couple 767's and 737's have a regular parking spaces in front of the old Pan Am hanger.
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It is a shame.On 5/15/2003 9:46:12 PM FA Mikey wrote:
Miami has a number of a/c that sit idle and rotate in the system. Its sad to see this waste of utilization. Several A300's, 777's a couple 767's and 737's have a regular parking spaces in front of the old Pan Am hanger.
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From the 10-K:
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In addition, the following owned and leased aircraft were not operated by the Company as of December 31, 2002: seven owned Boeing 727-200s, 14 operating leased Boeing 717-200s, 11 operating leased McDonnell Douglas DC-9s, six owned McDonnell Douglas DC-10-10s, four operating leased McDonnell Douglas MD-80s, eight operating leased Boeing 767-300s, six owned Embraer 145s and 16 capital leased and two owned Saab 340Bs.
The Company is actively marketing its remaining non-operating aircraft and does not anticipate bringing these aircraft back into its operations.
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I see the old TWA 763s, DC-9s and old Reno MD-80s, among others. Maybe some of the perpetually parked planes are the ones mentioned above.
Plus, AA will soon be parking 28 MD-80s and 14 762s in the desert for a couple of years to defer their heavy maintenance. But flights are picking up. Today AA announced that the 9th LAX-JFK flight was back on in June. Others will soon be added. Recovery will be slow, but it is happening.
Most of the aircraft have been flying. Not all, but most. And the time they have spent on the ground is not the reason that AA has been running low on cash.
Oliver Stone''s Apprentice
Veteran
- Aug 19, 2002
- 786
- 0
Whatever is parked at JFK could be the capacity we took out of the schedule for April and May due to war dropoff. A fair portion of that returns in June. We also start the summer skeds to Europe -- seasonal service on JFKFCO and ORDGLA have already started, with ORDFCO and BOSCDG starting up on June 1. JFKLHR #5 comes back later this month. ORDLHR #4 is added later this month, and ORDLHR #5 comes back June 1. JFKCDG #2 is back to daily service in July.
Also, don''t forget that since we''re furloughing pilots that there is a fair amount of crew time taken out of the schedule to fund training slots for those who being downgraded from CA to FO, and being bumped from type to type. Some of that is offset by the higher number of hours allowed under the TA, but there will also be some equiv aircraft grounded for the short term.
Also, don''t forget that since we''re furloughing pilots that there is a fair amount of crew time taken out of the schedule to fund training slots for those who being downgraded from CA to FO, and being bumped from type to type. Some of that is offset by the higher number of hours allowed under the TA, but there will also be some equiv aircraft grounded for the short term.
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On 5/15/2003 9:46:12 PM FA Mikey wrote:
Miami has a number of a/c that sit idle and rotate in the system. Its sad to see this waste of utilization. Several A300''s, 777''s a couple 767''s and 737''s have a regular parking spaces in front of the old Pan Am hanger.
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Thats HangAr, not HangEr....On 5/15/2003 9:46:12 PM FA Mikey wrote:
Miami has a number of a/c that sit idle and rotate in the system. Its sad to see this waste of utilization. Several A300''s, 777''s a couple 767''s and 737''s have a regular parking spaces in front of the old Pan Am hanger.
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On 5/16/2003 8:07:04 AM JS wrote:
AA doesn''t need to file for bankruptcy in order to cancel the AAdvantage program. AA can cancel it at any time with advance notice (6 months?).
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You are correct, as far as the AAdvantage members go.On 5/16/2003 8:07:04 AM JS wrote:
AA doesn''t need to file for bankruptcy in order to cancel the AAdvantage program. AA can cancel it at any time with advance notice (6 months?).
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But large purchasers of miles, like Citibank, could be in line for large refunds if the program is cancelled. Maybe that liability is the one that Mr Owens wants to eliminate.
Of course, with Citi as the lead DIP lender, I doubt that AA would want to mess with them like that.
