Amfa Negotiations

[UAL_TECH]

Negotiation notes

Rosemont, Illinois
December 28, 2004 2130

The company returned to the negotiation table this afternoon with its response to AMFA’s 12-22 offer. The three primary company negotiators spent just over an hour explaining their response. AMFA’s proposal to eliminate Success Sharing occupied most of the negotiation time and produced several interesting exchanges. Both sides also briefly discussed the company response to various other proposal items.

AMFA’s last offer prominently featured the elimination of the Success Sharing program. Out of the $71 million cut to our Collective Bargaining Agreement compensation package, the elimination of Success Sharing comprised about $30 million. By tossing out the Success Sharing program the Negotiating Committee (NC) sought to protect our wages. The Success Sharing program and a 5% wage cut are roughly equal in value.

The company lead negotiator broached the Success Sharing topic by characterizing the program as containing “variable dollars.†He contrasted that with the “hard dollars†of a wage cut. The AMFA side then reminded him that the Gershwin 5 business plan bestowed full value to the Success Sharing program. This model serves as the basis to attract lenders to provide bankruptcy exit financing.

In support of his argument about variable dollars, the company lead negotiator announced that the Success Sharing program would not meet its goal for the 4th quarter of this year. This revelation surprised the NC as the quarter will not end for three days and the October/November results exceed the goal.

The company then argued that it did not charge AMFA for the Success Sharing program, that it was a program that the company gave us “for free.†Soon after, one NC member pointed out that we received Success Sharing partially in exchange for the 13% wage cut we took in 2003 when last threatened with an 1113 motion. Indeed, Article XXII-Q (page 85-87 in the 2003-2009 agreement) lists Success Sharing under “Wage Rules.â€

This brings up another point that the company Chief Operating Officer (COO) drove home to the Negotiating Committee on December 1, 2004. At that point the NC proposed to receive credit for non-CBA cost saving ideas as an offset for CBA reductions. The COO steadfastly contended that only CBA items would be considered during these negotiations. It appears now that the company takes the position that only certain CBA items apply.

The company’s chief negotiator then outlined what he considered points of agreement:
• Five year duration
• Reduce overtime and holiday pay
• Reduce holidays from ten to six
• Allow outsourcing of fuelers

The company’s term sheet offer still stands on these items:
• Substantial increases to employee costs for health and welfare coverage
• 5% pay cut and 4% temporary pay cuts
• 70% sick leave pay
• Eliminate weeks five, six and seven in the vacation benefit
• Allow furloughs beyond the protection date as needed
• Modify Article II-D to allow outsourcing of PV, GQ, CT, GCT and MK work
• Eliminate occupational injury sick leave bank
• Eliminate Article II-F to allow offshore HMV/OSV, (AMFA proposal was for
a waiver through 12-31-09)

Several members of the NC, along with AMFA National and its professionals, made repeated and persuasive arguments regarding AMFA’s proposal to eliminate Success Sharing for our members. At one point in the discussion a door in the company defense opened slightly. The company attorney offered that “Success Sharing is a valuation issue.†The company lead negotiator quickly slammed that door shut with “Success Sharing has zero value.â€

The NC spent the balance of the afternoon evaluating the company response to its offer and crafting another proposal that it will offer the company tomorrow morning.

:down: UT

 

[kcabpilot]

Success Sharing has zero value

[post="233070"][/post]​

Finally we get a straight answer out of these clowns. I was intriqued with this idea - take something they claim is worth $30 million and try to hand it back to them. Suddenly it's worth nothing.

If management is indeed trying to 'break' AMFA we have at least one thing going for us: in all the time I've been associated with UAL I have never seen them succeed at anything.

 

[mrfish3726]

in all the time I've been associated with UAL I have never seen them succeed at anything.

The 6 years I spent there I saw that to! HAS ANYONE EVER SEEN UniTED EVER FINISH WHAT THEY STARTED?

 

[spacewaitress]

Hmmm...could it be that with so little time left we could be headed to TWO strikes on the property??

I think the company has what it needs with the pilots and is just shinin' the rest of us on until the judge gets into it. Then all hell will break loose. It don't think that would be pretty.

 

[767jetz]

Hmmm...could it be that with so little time left we could be headed to TWO strikes on the property??

[post="233578"][/post]​

Yeah. Just like at USAir, right? All the chest beating and strike talk, but now they have a TA. You think USAir AFA will support you (as they asked of you) now that they have a TA? Not. :down:

 

[spacewaitress]

Uh, no, I wouldn't expect USAir to strike on behalf of United Flight Attendants. I was talking about the AFA and the AMFA at United.

 

[ualdriver]

Uh, no, I wouldn't expect USAir to strike on behalf of United Flight Attendants. I was talking about the AFA and the AMFA at United.

[post="234260"][/post]​

Why wouldn't you expect US Air to strike on behalf of United F/A's? This link and quote comes right off the AFA web site. All that chest beating before in the press, certainly driving away at least some revenue from both UAL and US Air when either can ill afford to lose one more dime, but now when its time to follow through? Why drive customers away from your own airline when you're ALL not even going to follow through with a threat?

http://www.afanet.org/default.asp?id=515

"Hundreds of flight attendants and their supporters today rallied in Pittsburgh to show support for a decision by their union to call for a nationwide strike in the event that one or more of its contracted carriers abrogates its collective bargaining agreements."

 

[spacewaitress]

Why wouldn't you expect US Air to strike on behalf of United F/A's? This link and quote comes right off the AFA web site. All that chest beating before in the press, certainly driving away at least some revenue from both UAL and US Air when either can ill afford to lose one more dime, but now when its time to follow through? Why drive customers away from your own airline when you're ALL not even going to follow through with a threat?

[post="234270"][/post]​

I think you know the answer...a little disingenuous to ask, don't ya think.

Why did pilots create the mess in the "much exaggerated" summer of 2000.

Could it be to show the company that they were serious about getting a contract?

I know, I know, 'it didn't happen' that way and you've spoken ad nauseum on the subject. But I think the motive is obvious.

We do what we can and have to do...and AFA has made it clear that it's not just your beloved corporation that can 'ill afford to lose one more dime.'

I'll just bet that summer of y2k drove more revenue away from UAL than AFA's stance comes even close to doing. Have you been on any of our planes lately?

 

[ualdriver]

I'll agree with you that the Summer of 2000 cost the airline something, probably not as much as the Chaos threat so far, but the threat of CHAOS is costing us something, too. And it will cost us the company as we know it if it is used, something that the Summer of 2000 never came close to doing.

I don't think it's disingenuous at all to ask. You see the AFA website. You saw the link. You saw the months' worth of press releases. You saw the jazzy video of the AFA march on Washington, with all the flight attendants cheering together, protesting evil management and whatever else they were protesting. But I guess that's the AFA's call if they're going to let US Air out of the deal.

I also like that you put "much exaggerated" in front of "Summer of 2000." I think I'm getting through!!! I'll put "much exaggerated" in front of my Chaos stuff if you'll do the same for the "summer of 2000" from now on. Is it a deal?