A ..FAAILURE ?

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

Unless I'm reading the loads wrong,..everytime I go on Jetnet, I see the LGA/MSP flights at ABYSMAL loads.

Going up against BIG RED ,especially to MSP, Takes a HUGE leap of faith !

So again, if I'm reading the loads wrong, whoever dreamed that city pair up, needs to go to work for LCC

And to think, that full flts from PVD to DFW/ORD, (and I'm sure MIA), are now eaglet.

"WTF,..over" !

 

[FA Mikey]

It is possible there is some good mail and freight moving as well. I have seen the loads increasing. The best ones are out of NY. The fact that they are still sticking with it, with oil nearing 100, something must be going right or coming up.

The MSP-MIA flight started out very light for quite a while, now its packed close to full.

 

[eolesen]

Dunno what the loads are, but I just looked on AA.Com and couldn't find a seat over the next couple days.

MSP's bread and butter is MSP-ORD and MSP-DFW, and the revenue from that more than covers their local expenses (rent, equipment, salaries). So throwing a "what if?" point to point route like LGA doesn't really cost a whole lot aside from the aircraft & crew expense. The facility and equipment costs are sunk. The flight only needs to make enough to offset the incremental headcount (if there is any) and the landing fees. Anything else is gravy.

The reason PVD (and others) got downgraded, closed, whatever is because they couldn't cover their local expenses with just their hub route revenue.

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

Dunno what the loads are, but I just looked on AA.Com and couldn't find a seat over the next couple days.

MSP's bread and butter is MSP-ORD and MSP-DFW, and the revenue from that more than covers their local expenses (rent, equipment, salaries). So throwing a "what if?" point to point route like LGA doesn't really cost a whole lot aside from the aircraft & crew expense. The facility and equipment costs are sunk. The flight only needs to make enough to offset the incremental headcount (if there is any) and the landing fees. Anything else is gravy.

The reason PVD (and others) got downgraded, closed, whatever is because they couldn't cover their local expenses with just their hub route revenue.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

OK....E,

You sold me on your concept !

 

[Gloria Holtz]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

OK....E,

You sold me on your concept !

Could they make more money flying those planes in another market?

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

Could they make more money flying those planes in another market?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Perhaps,
But as eolesen correctly points out, it would make more sense to run those 6/8 dedicated planes from an existing station that was making money off of their already established flights to and from ORD/DFW or MIA.

And since AA is reducing domestic flying on the mainline, the chances of a NEW station opening up, would be SLIM, and NONE, ..BUT that does'nt mean that there are NO "untapped" markets out there.

I live in the town, that physically contains 2/3 of MHT(Manchester NH).

AA "could" run 3 flights a day using a 757/737/and a S-80, and make a "ton" of money, all flights leaving by 8am, and returning by 11pm, going to the following destinations.

A 757 flying MHT/MIA/SJU
A 737 flying MHT/DFW/MEX
a S80 flying MHT/ORD/SEA or SFO or LAX, and do VERY well.

Trust me, I know my "area", and the many people who would use AA to those destinations, coupled with an airport that NEVER shuts down, due to snow(the airport does an exceptional/Unbelievable job on snow removal.) The Airport has 2 runways going virtually N/E/S and west, and the Shortest r/w is 7,500 ' long. It also has a gate or 2 , plus counter space available.
A lot of People drive 4+ hours to use MHT, from All of Maine/NH/2/3 of Vermont, Northern and western Mass. The amount of people that drive AWAY from BOS is astronomical.

But alas,...."change" comes HARD to the "entrenched" good ol' boys in HDQ !!

 

[FlyUs]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Perhaps,
But as eolesen correctly points out, it would make more sense to run those 6/8 dedicated planes from an existing station that was making money off of their already established flights to and from ORD/DFW or MIA.

And since AA is reducing domestic flying on the mainline, the chances of a NEW station opening up, would be SLIM, and NONE, ..BUT that does'nt mean that there are NO "untapped" markets out there.

I live in the town, that physically contains 2/3 of MHT(Manchester NH).

AA "could" run 3 flights a day using a 757/737/and a S-80, and make a "ton" of money, all flights leaving by 8am, and returning by 11pm, going to the following destinations.

A 757 flying MHT/MIA/SJU
A 737 flying MHT/DFW/MEX
a S80 flying MHT/ORD/SEA or SFO or LAX, and do VERY well.
(Trust me, I know my "area", and the many people who would use AA to those destinations)

But alas,...."change" comes HARD to the "entrenched" good ol' boys in HDQ !!

Does AA fly to MHT?

 

[eolesen]

No, AA doesn't fly to MHT, so the cost equation changes pretty significantly. You're looking at $1M a year for agent and ground handling alone, and Lord knows how much for rent... All of that needs to be offset by the revenue minus direct operating costs such as fuel, a/c ownership, crew, catering and landing fees....

Bears, any idea how much it would cost in terms of rotables and storage space to support three a/c types for one flight per day on each type?...

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

NO..."E", but I'm sure you'll tell me/us.

 

[MCI transplant]

NO..."E", but I'm sure you'll tell me/us.

<_< ------- Oh! By the way Bears! Congrats on the Pat's win!!!!------- Please! No reference to the Chief's, it's down right embarrassing! :blush:

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

<_< ------- Oh! By the way Bears! Congrats on the Pat's win!!!!------- Please! No reference to the Chief's, it's down right embarrassing! :blush:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Thanx MCI !

I'm in a minority up here....meaning that all the hoop-la "don't mean shet", if they don't go to the "big Dance", and that obviously means beating Payton Manning to get there, WHICH...I'm not thoroughly convinced that they can

Indy....BWI, and to a lesser extent PIT, proved that if you can keep NE, "back on there heels", that they are ripe for a beatin'
HOWEVER, you must do "that" until the clock says....00:00 !!!

 

[Vortilon]

Unless I'm reading the loads wrong,..everytime I go on Jetnet, I see the LGA/MSP flights at ABYSMAL loads.

Going up against BIG RED ,especially to MSP, Takes a HUGE leap of faith !

So again, if I'm reading the loads wrong, whoever dreamed that city pair up, needs to go to work for LCC

And to think, that full flts from PVD to DFW/ORD, (and I'm sure MIA), are now eaglet.

"WTF,..over" !

Word is that there has been research and market studies done, and that is the rationale used. There are several major corporations based in the MSP area as well - 3M, General Mills, Best Buy, Target Corp, Medtronic, Honeywell to name a few - so no lack of business travelers either. The Mall of America is also a huge draw - no tax on clothes in MN. Also, as E points out - the support is already there, from gate agents and fleet service to A/C MX. There is plenty of room for competition with NWA.

 

[flyhigh]

...another point to consider is that the fares in LGA-MSP are still relatively high. There's no LCC on the route. Conversely, cities like PVD & MHT are Southwest cities which means that you may fill the flight, but with crap fares. There's a reson a bunch of people are avoiding Boston...no LCC service. Granted, JetBlue is there but they have limited service (destination wise).

As for the LGA-MSP service, it's really to serve the LGA traffic. Most of the MSP companies are locked up with NW. Why would they switch to AA who offers non-stop service to 3 cities when NW is sitting there with worldwide service. NW may not be liked but service will dictate a lot. If you look at AA's history, this is a pretty standard move for them...LGA-STL, LGA-HOU, LGA-ATL...they add service from LGA to your hub when they want to tell you something. There are a lot of companies in NYC that AA has contract with and can leverage to support these routes and subsequently steal from competitors.

 

[Vortilon]

...another point to consider is that the fares in LGA-MSP are still relatively high. There's no LCC on the route. Conversely, cities like PVD & MHT are Southwest cities which means that you may fill the flight, but with crap fares. There's a reson a bunch of people are avoiding Boston...no LCC service. Granted, JetBlue is there but they have limited service (destination wise).

As for the LGA-MSP service, it's really to serve the LGA traffic. Most of the MSP companies are locked up with NW. Why would they switch to AA who offers non-stop service to 3 cities when NW is sitting there with worldwide service. NW may not be liked but service will dictate a lot. If you look at AA's history, this is a pretty standard move for them...LGA-STL, LGA-HOU, LGA-ATL...they add service from LGA to your hub when they want to tell you something. There are a lot of companies in NYC that AA has contract with and can leverage to support these routes and subsequently steal from competitors.

Just a heads up, According to the AA marketing reps in the twin cities area, they already have working relationships with many of the local companies. However, the main push was from the NY side. BTW, AA offers non stop to 5 cities out of MSP if you count the American Connection to STL.

 

[Dan Webb]

And to think, that full flts from PVD to DFW/ORD, (and I'm sure MIA), are now eaglet.

Don't remind me. :down: I understand the point about covering expenses but come on, five pretty full MD-80s to 3 E140s a day? That's pretty insulting, not to mention a big gain for UAL (though PVD is a small market).