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On 7/28/2003 4:59:18 PM twuer wrote:
Bob,
You have worked in this industry for a long time and I applaud you for that but what about the guy (or girl) who doesn't have as much seniority as you? Say 6 or 7 years worth. What do you tell him/her when he gets his layoff papers, when all this time you are preaching "get protection join AMFA".
Well I see guys like that every day. What do I tell them? If we are to ever have a future in this industry we need a major overhaul of the labor movement, so go ahead, fill out a card. In fact I spoke to one such (laid off) worker today who said that he appreciated the fact that we were not volunteering to work OT. I saw him fill out a card and take 10 more for other laid workers who were working with him at his new job.
My goodness, in Minneapolis there are people who have worked there for over 10 years and are losing their jobs. How do you call that union representation better than what we now have in TUL? I don't see your reasoning.
We had people here with over 10 years that have quit because of this contract, and several other that have made their intentions to do so public. Whats worse, being laid off temporarily after 10 years or permanently quitting after putting in 10 years of nights, weekends and holidays?
You keep trying to push AMFA but you can't produce anything, other than the "mechanics at other airlines have voted to change to AMFA". So they have been suckered into changing. And now you want to do the same thing here. You are promising something you can't guarantee.
And most of those "suckers" are making more per hour than us, still get paid holidays, have a least two weeks vacation etc.
I have promised nothing. I have only maintained that the current structure is unacceptable.
I don't have the seniority you do. But I bet I have some of the same bills you have. I need my job. Don't take advantage of a bad situation and make promises that can't be kept.
We all need our jobs. But sometimes you have to have a pair and stand up for what you are worth.
Again, what promises have I made? I advocate change because the last twenty years have shown me that our present course is a dead end. Over the last twenty years I have seen this cycle of crisis and concessions repeated over and over again. The concessions are kept in place through the boom times and the International says "we will get em next time" but that time never comes. Before you know it you too will have twenty years in the business and have sacrificed a lot with little to show for it. This is life, and you got to have
b@!!$, you have to face it, challenge it and take a chance, otherwise you are really just a slave.
If you truly beleive in unionism then explain to me what the advantage is to having workers that do the same job, in the same locality, split between unions that are not focused on either them or their industry? Have you read the SEUIs paper "United We Win?" Its on our website. the SEIU is the largest union in the country, hardly a hotbed of "union busting".
(your comments)
The question is, would you rather be laid off for a short period of time and make good while you are working in this industry or settle for lousy pay, lousy hours, no holidays, as little as one weeks vacation along with a lot of other concessions because you are too much of a coward to stand up to the company and demand more?
Are you kidding me??????? And what kind of job would that be?????? I don't understand your reasoning.
If you were old enough then you would know that it used to be the airlines. You made good money but until you had enough seniority you had to expect layoffs. ( I've been there, I worked for around six different airlines before I was 25.In 1982 I used to get $15/hr at my part time job at NYAIR) However, even with the frequent layoffs they made more back then in real money than today. They started closer to top pay and topped out in two years. In the meantime they collected unemployment or worked other jobs.
(As far as the super seniority, how about Bakala and Kerrigan?) Sorry but I don't know who they are? But they are certainly none of my concern. I live in the present.
Thats really sad. Mike Bakala is the assistant ATD Director of the TWU and John Kerrigan is the Treasurer of the TWU. Do you know who Jim Little is? These are his bosses.
It is not all about the A&P mechanic who has worked for 10 years or more. What kind of seniority do the majority of the people you are trying to get to sign cards have? Do you give them statistics from AMFA as well? Just wondering...
I give them honest information, warts and all from all sides. Dont allow people to manipulate you through fear. Voting should be your most cherished right.The fact is that an election puts the TWU into the position where they have to justify why you should pick them instead of someone else(AMFA). They will have to come up with real reasons, not just use fear and lies, for you to pick them. What is wrong with making them come to you for support? What is there to fear about an election? Dont you feel that as an adult that you are fit to make such choices? Dont buy the line that by not having an election that you are making your choice, if thats the case then why arent all elections cancelled unless a majority call for an election? Elections bring debates and the exchange of ideas, an essential part of democracy, and the chance to make changes or maintain the status quo. You can always vote for the TWU in the election after hearing what both sides have to offer. At the very least the TWU might give members more control of the contract, but unless they are threatened with an election then why would they alter things that suit themselves very well?
I have read where CIO says that if you vote for AMFA you are voting away your jobs. How is that when Tulsa would still have the majority? If AMFA came back with an inferior agreement then you could reject the agreement and have a legal right, and electoral muscle to recall whoever negotiated the deal. With the TWU Jim Little could sign away all your jobs and you dont have the right to vote against it or remove him. Whats to stop the company from cutting a deal with Little to spin off Tulsa into AMR services in exchange for recognizing the TWU as the bargaining agent for the agents and clerks, kind of like how they did with Eagle around the time of the 95 debacle where A&P mechanics were removed from the shops ( after being told that they would be replaced through attrition) and replaced with lower paid SRPs? The Eagle mechanics that used to be here in NY said they never had an election for the TWU, all of a sudden they were just in a union.
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12 PM AAmech wrote:
