90 replies to this topic

[kirkpatrick]

jimntx, on 13 February 2012 - 12:53 PM, said:

Does the override apply to pay and credit hours in the sequence? The term sheet doesn't say. Also, note that the override qualifier (o/w training) will mean that for all practical purpose, no Mexico flights other than from MIA will qualify for the override.

There's a lot of details missing in the term sheet and I think the company and the union should get those details out to the membership as quickly as possible. On the override, the problem is it only applies to hours flown. I assume it applies to credit hours, but I've learned not to assume too much. So if you're off sick or on vacation your hours are paid at domestic rates, but if you fly an international trip you get the 3 bucks tacked on, similar to the way purser override or galley pay is paid today. Again, I assume what the company is trying to do with the references to over water is make it clear that what's now domestic remains domestic, and what's now international remains international.

They'll try to convince us that the override is the only way to manage a system with cross-utilization, but that's not so. At my previous airline, at the end of the month they figured out the percentage of each operation flown and adjusted hourly and OT rates to fall where they should. For example, someone at top of scale who flew 60% international and 40% domestic would be paid $47.88 per hour, 60% of the way between $46.00 and $49.14, the current dom and int rates. Same for overtime until we lost it later. Just to point out it can be done.

MK

[kirkpatrick]

BartlettAve, on 13 February 2012 - 04:07 PM, said:

Eliminating a premium pay rate on International kind of goes hand-in-hand with combining the DOM/INT bid sheet and pref bidding.

It doesn't have to. See my previous post.

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If all 16,000 FAs have the opportunity to fly an international trip now and then, theoretically, the quality of service could suffer.

Do you really think they care about that?

MK

[jimntx]

Is Quebec, Canada the only destination that requires speakers? I thought most foreign countries required a speaker of local language. Learn something every day.

But, you are right. International flights should not leave the ground without at least one speaker of the destination country language. We have enough difficulty on domestic flights with passengers who do not speak English.

For a Purser to have to ask a passenger to do PAs??? That's even more world-class airline than the window-shade repair I saw on a 737 that had overnighted at MCO. There were 3 Safety Instruction cards stuck to the window by about 10 Inop cart stickers.

[kirkpatrick]

jason77, on 13 February 2012 - 03:28 PM, said:

No more duty rigs is a big item. You could really get hurt if your trip falls apart.

At my previous airline changing trip rig from one for 3.5 to one for 4 changed a five-day JFK-CDG-TLV-CDG-JFK trip from 27 hrs to 22 hrs, bringing an 81 hr month (for 3 trips) to 66, meaning a whole extra trip had to be added. This can be devastating.

MK

[jimntx]

kirkpatrick, on 14 February 2012 - 07:37 AM, said:

I assume it applies to credit hours, but I've learned not to assume too much. So if you're off sick or on vacation your hours are paid at domestic rates,
MK

Two points...I think I answered my own question last night. The company wants to eliminate duty rigs; so, there won't be any pay and credit.

Also, vacation will be paid at a flat 3 hours/day, but you will be paid for all accrued vacation days (unlike today where we get paid only for vacation days where we would have flown). As far as vacation pay, Pref Bidding does not allow you to bid into a conflict. There will be no trips on your schedule during a vacation period; so, pay for the trip will not be an issue.

A whole set of threads could be devoted to the "new" sick leave policy and procedure--not the least being that if you and/or your doctor are not willing to submit his/her diagnosis/and treatment plan to the "managed care review," your sick leave will be unpaid. Even if paid, only the 24 days or first two occurrences will be paid full for trips missed. Everything beyond that will be paid at 60%. I have a close friend who is currently on intermittent FMLA due to ongoing chronic health issues. How is that going to be affected by the new regime?

From what I can understand, even if your doctor submits the info, the review folks can disagree with your doctor. Your time off is then unpaid. Now, in the spirit of full disclosure, I don't think this is all bad. I know of at least 2 flight attendants who think that sick leave is really supplemental vacation time. One actually said to me, "I earned that sick leave. It's my right to use it anyway I want."

As she is a friend of mine, I tried to warn her that the courts have ruled more than once that a company may establish a policy that using sick leave when you are not sick is grounds for termination. (We had an employee at Texaco who thought like her. He tried to sue Texaco when they fired him for abuse of sick leave. The courts dismissed the suit out of hand on previously established precedent.) Her response..."I'm not worried. My doctor will put anything on those FMLA papers I tell him to."

(Before anyone wants to disagree with me, there is no law (well maybe in California) that requires an employer to provide you with paid sick leave. It is a true company benefit (offered due to the efforts of unions of days past who won it in contracts, and the employer had to offer it to non-union employees as well to prevent riots. ) The FMLA requires only that a covered employer must give an employee up to 12 weeks of unpaid time off per year for personal/family illness before they can terminate you for absenteeism. You can not go by the implementation for f/as at AA. The way AA has implemented it, they are burning your sick leave and your FMLA at the same time if you don't want it to be "chargeable." I was at Texaco when the law was passed. Texaco's interpretation of the law was that you had to use up all accrued sick leave, vacation, and compensatory time before the FMLA clock started ticking.)

[kirkpatrick]

WorldTraveler, on 13 February 2012 - 04:43 PM, said:

It seems pretty obvious that AA wants to eliminate some of the "sacred cows" of the industry and is using the BK process to break all kinds of barriers which have built up over decades...

Barriers like the five day week and the eight hour day? I know we're going to have to take some knocks but let's be careful about calling limitations "barriers".

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I would imagine that the FA groups will still largely divide based on seniority.

I think the senior people will always get what they want no matter what the rules, and I have no problem with that. I'd like to see the system flexible enough to allow those who want domestic to be able to fly domestic, and those who want international to be able to fly international. It can be done while still giving the company its flexibility.

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What I didn't see addressed (or I missed) was any change to AA's foreign language speaker program and the staffing that goes along with it. Did I miss it? Comments?

If it ain't broke don't fix it.

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And of course the interesting question is whether there is any talk about a mass exodus of FAs as has been reported might happen in maintenance.

They haven't made any offers yet. If they allow people to retire under the "old rules" with insurance they might get quite a few. Eight years ago UA did that and about 2500 FAs bailed out. If they offer some cash they could increase that number.

It would be in their interest to do so. The hourly rate for newhires is less than half that at top of scale, and there are other benefits as well. I went fifteen years without seeing a doctor except for routine eye exams and my flight physical for my pilot's license every two years. Young people seldom use medical benefits. Matching 5.5% of 401k contributions helps too, since 5.5% of a lower pay means less payout from the company, and many/most young people don't save for retirement anyway, since they think it will never happen.

MK

[kirkpatrick]

damajagua, on 14 February 2012 - 01:40 AM, said:

I have a lot of questions regarding the preferential bidding system that the company
want. That was one of the issues why we went on strike in 1993. So I can tell you
the majority of flight attendants do no want a PBS system.

This is one thing I hope the company is able to get. Pref bidding would be wonderful. I know I'm practically alone in this opinion, but I took part in a test program at my previous airline among pursers, so I know a bit about how it works. You'll be able to get your line pretty much where you want it initially, eliminating the need to pay traders to back things up and drop turns which they throw into good lines.

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Again I have a lot question how this new reserve system is going to work.

I agree. They need to get a lot of info out quickly. If they're smart they could fix a lot of problems without costing money. For example, the current system of not being able to touch open time the day before originated with the idea of saving open trips for AVBL people, but that won't be necessary any longer. The AM/PM call in periods are a good idea, but don't have to be limited to a few senior reserves. I'd be glad to lend the negotiators my old T** contract so they could see how to make it work right.

One of the reasons we had such great flexibility at my old company was that there was a spirit of working together to save the company, and the company gave in on a lot of little things that cost little or no money, and in exchange we were willing to give them some of what they wanted. I wonder why that's too much to expect here.

MK

[jimntx]

damajagua, on 14 February 2012 - 01:40 AM, said:

The only thing that I like from the term sheet is the new reserve system that the
company is proposing. I like the idea of one reserve list for both domestic and
international. With one reserve list we will need less flight attendants on reserve.
Again I have a lot question how this new reserve system is going to work.
Are we going to be allow to trade the days that we are on reserve. Can we plot trip
That are on open time, etc etc.

Be careful what you wish for. There is a distinct difference between "we will need less flight attendants on reserve" and "we will need less flight attendants with the new reserve system." The combination of the reserve pools into one is why the company wants to permanently eliminate 2300 f/a positions. However, that does not mean you or anyone else currently subject to reserve will be off reserve in the new system.

IIRC, I read somewhere that at Delta (whose reserve system we seem to be offered in the term sheet) only the top 10% of f/as in seniority have no reserve days on their schedules each month. So, the new system may simply mean that instead of serving reserve for a full month 3 times/year, you will now have some reserve days every month.

There is a possibility that with 2800 f/as (counting the 500 who have already been sent WARN letters) off the active list, the seniority of people subject to reserve may actually go lower than it is now, and people that are currently free of reserve may be back on reserve.

As you said, there are a lot of questions with no answers in the term sheet. I would doubt that you could trade reserve days (can you imagine AA allowing something that f/a-friendly? Please!). They just can not wrap their little brains around a concept like is used at Southwest where the schedulers don't care who flies a trip as long as somebody flies the trip. Who cares whose on reserve that day as long as somebody is on reserve. The company should care less about it, but they don't.


It would be nice if they allowed self-plotting on the reserve days, but there would have to be restrictions to make sure they have speaker/purser/etc coverage for all days. And, they would have to prevent plotting turns in the middle of a block of reserve days to make yourself ineligible for anything other than turns on the rest of the days. (Yes, we all know it would happen today if it could. There's a reason the company put restrictions on plotting turns for available days. )