226 replies to this topic

[Iclubbabyseals]

psa8979, on 19 February 2012 - 05:19 PM, said:

I work for LCC on the ramp at SFO . I did read the T/A. In my humble opinion as a 35 yr. Airline Worker . DP would be laughing all the way to the bank if LCC FA's vote yes for this CBA.

Nothing humble about your position.  Carer to apply for CEO?

[luvthe9]

DO NOT GIVE UP YOUR SCOPE WHAT EVER YOU DO.  VOTE NO!!!!!!

[Iclubbabyseals]

galley princess, on 19 February 2012 - 03:51 PM, said:

I have popped in reading the various posts on this thread, but I really didn't have anything to add.  As I previously stated, it's all well and good to attend the roadshows and hear the hard sell, but for me it's about three o'clock in the morning.

You know, when it's you and scheduling and you're being threatened into doing whatever nasty thing they want you to do, despite the fact that you're illegal, exhausted or just plain screwed?  "Grieve it" is the usual response.  Then you find out that the union won't grieve or even fight it.

The written document.  That's it.  That's all you've got, and usually it's not enough.  Whatever the explanation is, it does not change the document, and despite the general opinon of F/As that many of US execs hold, I can read.

I cited SWA and Continental because they are part of the industry, and they are relevant.  SWA I think everyone realized we wouldn't match.  Continental is relevant because most likely Continental F/As aren't going to allow a decrease in pay, more likely they'll negotiate status quo + United work rules.  That is not farfetched and given the tentative that UA is entertaining, which, by the way is more favorable than ours, and add another contract within four years, and they really embody industry standard.  

I think it is relevant that they will get raises annually, and start with a 5K signing bonus.

  Meanwhile, ours is five years, which usually translates to six, and you get three raises.  Are there some good things in our TA?Absolutely.  Not enough to wash away the concessions and mask that it is at BEST cost neutral and at worst we lost more than we gained.

Throw all of the UA comparisons away, and you still have a US tentative agreement with huge concessions and very little gain.


This forum is dominated by pilots, and probably lurked by some F/As, I don't know how many F/As really do read it anymore.  I do know that posts that lobby hard one way or another should be suspect, and that includes me.  Ask yourself why posters are posting.

I will tell you why I am posting.  I am intensely infuriated by the insult that this TA poses to my intelligence.  I refuse to let it go unchallenged.  Having said that, I recognize that my situation is not everyone elses and everyone has to vote in their own best interests, which could mean that this is what you want.

Just consider doing the math.  For your own edification.  Know what you're voting for/against.  

I would also argue that if you vote for something because you're afraid you'll have to wait or not get anything better, then negotiating five years from now will
be a formality.  If the company thinks they can get you to accept anything because it is better than waiting, then it's over before it begins.

Well said.  Intellectually, perfect.

Anyone not siding with you is a management pimp.

I might suggest that, per Mr. Parker past practice, I would assume that any "five year contract" would, in actuality, be realistically a twelve year contract..

[usfliboi]

AFA - CWA US Airways MEC E-Line - "Staying Informed"


  


The AFA Newsletter for US Airways Flight Attendants
    In this Issue

February 22, 2012    

Dear Members,
TENTATIVE AGREEMENT VOTING INFORMATION

Accessing The Hub

AFA Local Numbers

TENTATIVE AGREEMENT VOTING INFORMATION



The East and West Master Executive Councils have finalized balloting procedures and timelines for the upcoming Tentative Agreement ratification vote.   Each MEC has the exclusive right to determine whether their members ballot is in paper form or electronic.   The West MEC decided to use electronic.   The East Local Executive Council Presidents opted for a paper ballot.



Both East and West ballot mail and count dates will be the same.



Ballots/Electronic voting instruction will be mailed on March 2, 2012.

Ballots will be counted and the results announced on March 30, 2012.



Complete voting instruction will be included in the ballot/voting instructions you receive.  



As with either paper ballots or electronic voting instructions, it is vital that AFA International has the address where you receive your mail in the database.   If you are unsure of whether or not the AFA International Office has your correct mailing address click on the following link to update or change your address: www.afacwa.org/coa.



If you do not receive a ballot or if you lose your ballot you can receive a duplicate ballot from the AFA International office by calling the following number: 1-800-424-2401 ext.  1706



Road shows are scheduled to continue through March 14.   For a complete schedule of the road show information click the following link: http://afausairways....pdate020812.htm



Some of you may receive a ballot before you have chance to attend a road show or read important information.   There is no need to execute your ballot until you are comfortable that you have all the information.    Your ballot only needs to be received by the AFA International Office in time to counted on March 30.    



If you vote and then wish to change your mind you may request a duplicate ballot.  



Please keep in mind that duplicate ballots will not be available from your Local AFA Office.  



Thank you,



The Master Executive Council

[WINGMAN89]

galley princess, on 19 February 2012 - 03:51 PM, said:

quote name='Phoenix' timestamp='1329684861' post='873483']
The FAs on the East seem motivated to study the actual TA for themselves rather than rely on summaries.  Of the many that have already read it, I haven't heard  one that is in favor of it.  

I overheard one FA on the hotel bus trying to persuade the others to vote in favor of it, but she didn't get too far when it became apparent they had read it and she hadn't.  

Good luck.


I have popped in reading the various posts on this thread, but I really didn't have anything to add.  As I previously stated, it's all well and good to attend the roadshows and hear the hard sell, but for me it's about three o'clock in the morning.

You know, when it's you and scheduling and you're being threatened into doing whatever nasty thing they want you to do, despite the fact that you're illegal, exhausted or just plain screwed?  "Grieve it" is the usual response.  Then you find out that the union won't grieve or even fight it.

The written document.  That's it.  That's all you've got, and usually it's not enough.  Whatever the explanation is, it does not change the document, and despite the general opinon of F/As that many of US execs hold, I can read.

I cited SWA and Continental because they are part of the industry, and they are relevant.  SWA I think everyone realized we wouldn't match.  Continental is relevant because most likely Continental F/As aren't going to allow a decrease in pay, more likely they'll negotiate status quo + United work rules.  That is not farfetched and given the tentative that UA is entertaining, which, by the way is more favorable than ours, and add another contract within four years, and they really embody industry standard.  

I think it is relevant that they will get raises annually, and start with a 5K signing bonus.

  Meanwhile, ours is five years, which usually translates to six, and you get three raises.  Are there some good things in our TA?Absolutely.  Not enough to wash away the concessions and mask that it is at BEST cost neutral and at worst we lost more than we gained.

Throw all of the UA comparisons away, and you still have a US tentative agreement with huge concessions and very little gain.


This forum is dominated by pilots, and probably lurked by some F/As, I don't know how many F/As really do read it anymore.  I do know that posts that lobby hard one way or another should be suspect, and that includes me.  Ask yourself why posters are posting.

I will tell you why I am posting.  I am intensely infuriated by the insult that this TA poses to my intelligence.  I refuse to let it go unchallenged.  Having said that, I recognize that my situation is not everyone elses and everyone has to vote in their own best interests, which could mean that this is what you want.

Just consider doing the math.  For your own edification.  Know what you're voting for / against.  

I would also argue that if you vote for something because you're afraid you'll have to wait or not get anything better, then negotiating five years from now will probably be a formality.  If the company thinks they can get you to accept anything because it is better than waiting, then it's over before it begins.

galley princess,

I cant tell you how pleased I was to read your post. I have also popped in on occasion to read others’ viewpoints but recently joined to add my comments. You seem to have the best handle on the reality of the issues. You are in tune with the industry and cannot be easily buffaloed. You are spot on about CO and WN being a part of the industry and should be included. Lets not forget that Alaska doesn’t have a bad contract either. Why was Alaska left out of the comparisons? Our AFA leaders will spin it and tell you that these airlines are making more $$$ because they don’t have good duty rigs or they have inferior work rules however if we were to be rolled into any one of these airlines’ contract it would pass overwhelmingly.

UA secures a 5K signing bonus for their F/A’s  we get no retro pay or signing bonus. UA negotiated an early buyout for up to $ 60,000 and we get a side letter where the company agrees to confer and discuss in the future ( no definitive date) the feasibility of offering an early out program. What a joke!!! Not only does our company insult our intelligence but AFA is right there as well.  

UA secures a 5K signing bonus for their F/A’s  we get no retro pay or signing bonus. UA negotiated an early buyout for up to $ 60,000 and we get a side letter where the company agrees to confer and discuss in the future ( no definitive date) the feasibility of offering an early out program. What a joke!!! Not only does our company insult our intelligence but AFA is right there with them insulting us. To think they were boasting about an industry leading contract? Perhaps leading us to the BOTTOM of the industry?

During local meetings MF quoted that co pairing was off the table. Was it off the table because it was already agreed to?  

I have to wonder if there isn’t some kind of gag order on the  LEC’s. I would think that the e-communications would be addressing the “ Tentative Agreement” daily since that is all any of us are talking about. Why aren’t they talking? Perhaps a fear of contradicting the spin at the road shows? I have never seen less communication from our officers during such an important environment? Are we beat up? The “mobilization committee” turned out to be nothing more than a sales force strong arming and threatening flight attendants that they need to vote for this Tentative Agreement. The way I see it, if you have a GOOD PRODUCT it will sell itself. If its an INFERIOR PRODUCT you need to have a good sales force.  Are we laying down to a company who is drowning in cash?  My friends based in PHL are saying their LEC won’t talk and continues to threaten them if they vote this proposal down but yet she took a neutral stand. Our LEC seems to be sending out fluff in our e-communications quoting verbiage from our current contract i.e. “ How do we get reimbursed for the renewal of our passports?”  Haven’t seen much communication from the DCA e-communications either. Is it coincidental that nobody is talking?

MF and CA still running PHL?  Our LEC in CLT said she would draw some comparisons from the Tentative and the current contract but now has become very silent. I believe she would like to communicate but may be submitting to some pressure. Reimbursement of my passport renewal fees is hardly a deal breaker for me. How about you?

]I would also argue that if you vote for something because you're afraid you'll have to wait or not get anything better, then negotiating five years from now will probably be a formality. If the company thinks they can get you to accept anything because it is better than waiting, then it's over before it begins

Amen to that galley!!!!

JMHO

[galley princess]

After reading this TA and hearing other salient points that F/As have discovered as they examine it, I remain incredulous that we have actually been presented with this thing.

That it is poor work is clear.

After almost six years?

So I actually think that this is a true test of F/As at US right now.  If we assume any benevolence on the part of union negotiators, then the true answer is that US is just not willing to negotiate in good faith until they see serious resolve from the F/A group.

This is put up or shut up time.

For anything to move forward, this TA has to be voted down.  That is the only way we get rid of the negotiators who brought it, and that is the only way US will understand that we are not accepting these kind of substandard work rules and compensation.

These are the people who took YEARS to realize how much market share they lost of high ticket price business travellers on PHL transatlantic post merger.  These are the people who only grudgingly admitted that the "pay for beverages" was a huge mistake and revenue loser.  

These are people who need hammers to their heads before they are willing to concede anything.

They need to see the resolve of the F/a group.  It's our turn.  Our negotiators were beaten, that's clear.

Are we?

[galley princess]

Dupe

[N965VJ]

WINGMAN89, on 23 February 2012 - 11:23 PM, said:

I have to wonder if there isn’t some kind of gag order on the  LEC’s. I would think that the e-communications would be addressing the “ Tentative Agreement” daily since that is all any of us are talking about. Why aren’t they talking? Perhaps a fear of contradicting the spin at the road shows? I have never seen less communication from our officers during such an important environment?

It sure is quiet...