Sign In
Create Account
0
gentleman unfortunately we have laughed about it for to long to not give credit of the demise or the current predicament of aa. years ago i remember Crandall saying that he can make a secretary a supervisor and there would be no difference in performance or something to that effect. since than the company has made a supervisors slot so undesirable that anybody that's qualified wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole. now look where we are at, the rejects are mid level management implementing failed policy. hell the finger pointing and stabbing in the back of supervisors in AFW was humorous to watch. who remembers loading seats before laying carpet to show VP? or the joke in taesl about a certain manager being a FOD? we all have stories at every station about the same incompetence. its unfortunate that WE let the union allow this and WE allowed the union to protect individuals that should have never made probation.it was funny because if management was to busy screwing each other they had no time to mess with the rank and file so the inmates ran the asylum. It use to burn me when a supervisor would say i cant do anything the union wont let it or upper management will not back me. so nothing was done to correct problems. and it festered.im not pro company or pro union i pay my dues come in do my thing and go home for the last 22 years.the point of this rant and if the company is reading it and i hope they do. there is no hope for aa until you get competent front line management that has a clue how to fix an airplane or run an airline. im not talking about the carty, arpeys or the hortons you guys come and go. its the supervisor that i look at every day and laugh at instead of respecting them, aa does not have that, its sad because as you eat your own ranks they are the ones that make the airline run and you aa ran them off a long time ago.
that's the rant for the day!
Back to top
#2
Posted 03 February 2012 - 05:41 PM
Strake
-
- Registered Member
-
- 211 posts
Advanced
dfw gen, on 03 February 2012 - 04:49 PM, said:
gentleman unfortunately we have laughed about it for to long to not give credit of the demise or the current predicament of aa. years ago i remember Crandall saying that he can make a secretary a supervisor and there would be no difference in performance or something to that effect. since than the company has made a supervisors slot so undesirable that anybody that's qualified wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole. now look where we are at, the rejects are mid level management implementing failed policy. hell the finger pointing and stabbing in the back of supervisors in AFW was humorous to watch. who remembers loading seats before laying carpet to show VP? or the joke in taesl about a certain manager being a FOD? we all have stories at every station about the same incompetence. its unfortunate that WE let the union allow this and WE allowed the union to protect individuals that should have never made probation.it was funny because if management was to busy screwing each other they had no time to mess with the rank and file so the inmates ran the asylum. It use to burn me when a supervisor would say i cant do anything the union wont let it or upper management will not back me. so nothing was done to correct problems. and it festered.im not pro company or pro union i pay my dues come in do my thing and go home for the last 22 years.the point of this rant and if the company is reading it and i hope they do. there is no hope for aa until you get competent front line management that has a clue how to fix an airplane or run an airline. im not talking about the carty, arpeys or the hortons you guys come and go. its the supervisor that i look at every day and laugh at instead of respecting them, aa does not have that, its sad because as you eat your own ranks they are the ones that make the airline run and you aa ran them off a long time ago.
that's the rant for the day!
that's the rant for the day!
Couldn't have said it better.
#3
Posted 03 February 2012 - 07:57 PM
mike7863
-
- Registered Member
-
- 30 posts
Member
i know what your saying. when they made all the cuts in st. louis they got rid of the best supervisors that had years of experience in a/c maint. and kept they young supervisors who were new hire mechs right out of a&p school and didnt know crap yet. only reason they took the sup jobs was so they wouldnt get laid off.
#4
Posted 03 February 2012 - 09:41 PM
AA89
-
- Registered Member
-
- 209 posts
Advanced
gentleman unfortunately we have laughed about it for to long to not give credit................
Well said dfwgen........There is plenty of blame to go around. How can you run a business with no accountability in either managemant or union workers. But honestly, I blame the union more than the company because while there is incompetence in both I have never seen a member of management with his feet kicked up and a newspaper or computer on his lap laughing about how bad he is screwing the company. Unfortunately those of us that appreciate our jobs will take the hit for those lazy asses that the union protects. Which became the only thing they were good for in the end.
It has been obvious since the concessions of 2003 that the gutting we took then, and the EXTENSIVE gutting we will take now, wouldn't be necessary if we had a union with common sense and actually saw more value in the skill we provide vs just protecting the jobs/dues of people who have no appreciation of their jobs. In short, if the dead wood were cleaned out by the company with the cooperation of the union we would actually be stronger and more diffucult to replace. Maybe it would have made a difference, maybe not. All I can say is this disfunctional situation hasn't worked and alot of hard working skilled people are going to pay for it.
And that is my rant for the day.
Well said dfwgen........There is plenty of blame to go around. How can you run a business with no accountability in either managemant or union workers. But honestly, I blame the union more than the company because while there is incompetence in both I have never seen a member of management with his feet kicked up and a newspaper or computer on his lap laughing about how bad he is screwing the company. Unfortunately those of us that appreciate our jobs will take the hit for those lazy asses that the union protects. Which became the only thing they were good for in the end.
It has been obvious since the concessions of 2003 that the gutting we took then, and the EXTENSIVE gutting we will take now, wouldn't be necessary if we had a union with common sense and actually saw more value in the skill we provide vs just protecting the jobs/dues of people who have no appreciation of their jobs. In short, if the dead wood were cleaned out by the company with the cooperation of the union we would actually be stronger and more diffucult to replace. Maybe it would have made a difference, maybe not. All I can say is this disfunctional situation hasn't worked and alot of hard working skilled people are going to pay for it.
And that is my rant for the day.
#5
Posted 03 February 2012 - 10:00 PM
787nightmare
-
- Registered Member
-
- 571 posts
Veteran
I have actually entertained pursuing a Supervisors position at this juncture in life-a few times.
But I always back away because I see what's going on and the expectations/crap they have take off of educated idiots. I just don't do that kind of 2 step.... I'd have my mechs backs too often-thus resulting in me being shown the door. That's just the reality of the situation. They don't want former maint personnel with a good relationship with his "race horses", they want "yes men".
No thanks...
But I always back away because I see what's going on and the expectations/crap they have take off of educated idiots. I just don't do that kind of 2 step.... I'd have my mechs backs too often-thus resulting in me being shown the door. That's just the reality of the situation. They don't want former maint personnel with a good relationship with his "race horses", they want "yes men".
No thanks...
#6
Posted 03 February 2012 - 10:17 PM
dfw gen
-
- Registered Member
-
- 186 posts
Advanced
when danny martinez came up with the brain dead idea of just managers, and made supervisors interview thats when the nail was driven into the coffin. that's when any half way competent supervisor was run off
AGAIN IF COMPANY STOOGES ARE LISTENING HIRE COMPETENT SUPERVISORS NOT BROTHER IN LAWS AND DAY LABORERS........TO FILL JOBS YOU MADE SO UNDESIRABLE THAT'S ALL THAT WOULD TAKE THEM.
hey another suggestion stop the liers club where they all have to lie to protect their livelihood. try a little honesty lord knows you guys don't know too much about that....
AGAIN IF COMPANY STOOGES ARE LISTENING HIRE COMPETENT SUPERVISORS NOT BROTHER IN LAWS AND DAY LABORERS........TO FILL JOBS YOU MADE SO UNDESIRABLE THAT'S ALL THAT WOULD TAKE THEM.
hey another suggestion stop the liers club where they all have to lie to protect their livelihood. try a little honesty lord knows you guys don't know too much about that....
#7
Posted 04 February 2012 - 02:26 AM
eolesen
-
- Registered Member
-
- 7,676 posts
Veteran
It's a no-win situation to be a front line supervisor.
1) The pay sucks; considering overtime, it is usually a pay cut to go into that first level of management
2) You *do* wind up doing a lot of what seems to be useless paperwork
3) At some point, you *will* be left to twist in the wind when you're told to tell your crew something that should be credible, and it turns out to be a load of crap
4) there is no job security whatsoever
and the worst part...
5) You could be a great mechanic/clerk/agent and/or lifelong friends with your entire crew, yet the moment you take off the uniform and put on a tie, those same guys will treat you like a piece of crap and act as though you couldn't wipe your own ass without having an email from the MOD telling you which direction to wipe and for how long.
Management owns the first four items, but the last one is squarely in your court, guys. I've seen it happen too many times to be a coincidence or an isolated event.
Next time you're wondering why you can't get qualified supervisors on the front line, take a good long look in the mirror and ask yourself what you do on a daily basis that might keep you from wanting to be in their shoes.
1) The pay sucks; considering overtime, it is usually a pay cut to go into that first level of management
2) You *do* wind up doing a lot of what seems to be useless paperwork
3) At some point, you *will* be left to twist in the wind when you're told to tell your crew something that should be credible, and it turns out to be a load of crap
4) there is no job security whatsoever
and the worst part...
5) You could be a great mechanic/clerk/agent and/or lifelong friends with your entire crew, yet the moment you take off the uniform and put on a tie, those same guys will treat you like a piece of crap and act as though you couldn't wipe your own ass without having an email from the MOD telling you which direction to wipe and for how long.
Management owns the first four items, but the last one is squarely in your court, guys. I've seen it happen too many times to be a coincidence or an isolated event.
Next time you're wondering why you can't get qualified supervisors on the front line, take a good long look in the mirror and ask yourself what you do on a daily basis that might keep you from wanting to be in their shoes.
#8
Posted 04 February 2012 - 09:18 AM
WorldTraveler
-
- Registered Member
-
- 4,360 posts
Veteran
very, very well said, E.
It is also true that frontline leadership in ANY organization is the hardest job in the organization - having to walk between the frontline people and higher ups in the organization. Upper level leaders don't really have to integrate with the masses and while they may (and often do) consider how their actions affect others below them, they do not have to live with the day to day consequences of their actions.
.
But it is also true that frontline leadership is the first level at which one is expected to demonstrate leadership skills - and those require being able to see the big picture - that which is bigger than myself and my world - and figure out how to make the companies objectives happen in a context that may not be very friendly or even a good fit for larger level objectives.
.
But it is also true that there are a whole lot of people in all walks of life who criticize leadership but when given the lowest level of responsibility in an organization can't deliver what they are expected to deliver.
.
Life comes down to whether people want to stand on the sidelines of an organizatoin criticizing what the leaders of an organization do or whether they choose to be a part of making the organization - warts, freckles, and all - work within the context that organization works - a concept that is not a whole lot different than the challenge each of us is given in life.
.
Regardless of what got AA into its present problems, it will only survive and thrive if the organization and its people decide they are interested in giving their best to something over which they ultimately might not have any control - but hoping that the good contributions of a many will result in the best for the company.
.
AA has set out a very aggressive turnaround plan that recognizes and deals with the problems that previous AA leaders refused to face head on for almost a decade.
.
There will be pain - a whole lot of pain. But those who choose to stick it out and stay with AA have the potential to rebuild AA into something really greAAt in the industry again. It will be far more difficult to rebuild in 18-24 months what AA took decades to do in the past but AA still has enormous potential to be a proud part of the global airline industry.
.
The time to criticize AA's past ended the moment their restructuring plan was announced. If someone else had a better plan, they should have been in a position to make it happen. But since the current mgmt team is calling the shots, it is time to give them the opportunity to prove or not that they can turn the company around. I for one believe they can.
.
The leadership that individuals throughout AA show will determine whether AA can reach its objectives of emerging and thriving or not.
It is also true that frontline leadership in ANY organization is the hardest job in the organization - having to walk between the frontline people and higher ups in the organization. Upper level leaders don't really have to integrate with the masses and while they may (and often do) consider how their actions affect others below them, they do not have to live with the day to day consequences of their actions.
.
But it is also true that frontline leadership is the first level at which one is expected to demonstrate leadership skills - and those require being able to see the big picture - that which is bigger than myself and my world - and figure out how to make the companies objectives happen in a context that may not be very friendly or even a good fit for larger level objectives.
.
But it is also true that there are a whole lot of people in all walks of life who criticize leadership but when given the lowest level of responsibility in an organization can't deliver what they are expected to deliver.
.
Life comes down to whether people want to stand on the sidelines of an organizatoin criticizing what the leaders of an organization do or whether they choose to be a part of making the organization - warts, freckles, and all - work within the context that organization works - a concept that is not a whole lot different than the challenge each of us is given in life.
.
Regardless of what got AA into its present problems, it will only survive and thrive if the organization and its people decide they are interested in giving their best to something over which they ultimately might not have any control - but hoping that the good contributions of a many will result in the best for the company.
.
AA has set out a very aggressive turnaround plan that recognizes and deals with the problems that previous AA leaders refused to face head on for almost a decade.
.
There will be pain - a whole lot of pain. But those who choose to stick it out and stay with AA have the potential to rebuild AA into something really greAAt in the industry again. It will be far more difficult to rebuild in 18-24 months what AA took decades to do in the past but AA still has enormous potential to be a proud part of the global airline industry.
.
The time to criticize AA's past ended the moment their restructuring plan was announced. If someone else had a better plan, they should have been in a position to make it happen. But since the current mgmt team is calling the shots, it is time to give them the opportunity to prove or not that they can turn the company around. I for one believe they can.
.
The leadership that individuals throughout AA show will determine whether AA can reach its objectives of emerging and thriving or not.
Celebrating the best in commercial aviation.
#9
Posted 04 February 2012 - 10:17 AM
BigMac
-
- Registered Member
-
- 275 posts
Senior
#10
Posted 04 February 2012 - 11:14 AM
WorldTraveler
-
- Registered Member
-
- 4,360 posts
Veteran
BigMac, on 04 February 2012 - 10:17 AM, said:
A good article even it takes a long winding road to get to the point of saying that AA's BK will be difficult, which everyone knew - and AA's filing was not a surprise even if there were analysts who believed AA could keep going as is and recommended the stock.
.
nonetheless, there are several noteworthy quotes including the size of the task ahead of AA and the fact that it involves revenue and cost issues, the fact that DL's pension costs per employee were higher than AA's before filing, and the necessity of solving employee related issues in order to turn the company around.
.
Yet the conclusion remains that AA's future depends on everyone's willingness to work to make AA greAAt again.
Celebrating the best in commercial aviation.
0 user(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users
