135 replies to this topic

[jimntx]

eolesen, on 02 February 2012 - 08:00 AM, said:

Ah, Jim, at least we can always count on you to find the bluebird of happiness's droppings....  

In the term sheet there's a requirement to fly a minimum of 200 hours to maintain employment...

Is that new?  It's been a long time since I saw an APFA contract, and I know there is the 400 hour trigger to get heath benefits, but I don't recall seeing this new language.

I know there's probably nowhere near enough to make a huge dent in the total reduction number, but will that perhaps force a few of the "quit but didn't retire" senior mamas to finally either retire or take a voluntary option?

One can always hope, but...

The actual specification is "In order to maintain employment, a flight attendant must be paid a
minimum of 200 hours, or be paid an average of 16:40 hours per active
month, if the flight attendant has been inactive due to unpaid status
during the preceding 12 months. The annual look back period for
employment will be consistent with the medical benefits look back."

As Kirkpatrick said, this is really new for AA.  There should be no more "I haven't flown a trip in over 10 years and the only time I'm on an airplane is when I come to Dallas for EPTs."  I find nothing wrong with the new provision, but I made clear some time ago that as far as I am concerned if you want to call yourself a flight attendant you should have to fly on occasion.  I wouldn't have minded if they had specified more hours than 200 hours/year.  Under the current system, that is a requirement to fly one 3-day trip or 3 turns a month.  After all there are f/as flying 140/mo just to make ends meet.  (Have to work 3 days a month?  What an outrage? )

The people this may really hurt, though, are the people with chronic health problems where they run out of sick leave during the year.  Fortunately, the Federal FMLA requirements prevent the company from firing these people until they have exhausted 12 weeks of unpaid leave in a calendar year.

When the 500 are gone on 01April, that will leave me about 1000 from the bottom of the active list.  If 2300 end up being furloughed, that will mean 1300 above me on the furlough list.  As soon as my unemployment insurance runs out, I can always retire from furlough.  (And, yes I would draw every dime of the UI before I retired.  It will increase the company's UI payroll tax rate.)

[700UW]

Duke787, on 02 February 2012 - 11:18 AM, said:

Warn letters not required during BK, according to union steward.

That information is not correct, US closed the maintenance hangar overnight one day, during chapter 11 and didnt send out WARN notice, the IAM sued in court and won them an additional 60 days worth of pay and benefits.

Also remember the Term Sheets are the company's wish list, negotiations havent started yet, and it usually is about a three month process.

There is always wiggle room, or at least there should be.

[czerny]

[quote name='jimntx' timestamp='1328210713' post='867326']
One can always hope, but...

Hey Jim, here we go again. You are further up the chopping block than I am. I'm standing precariously at 1214 from the bottom.I flew the day after the bankruptcy announcement. Only I and the number 2 discussed what was going on. Everyone else was busy with their shopping list, buying yet more knock off garbage. No one talked retirement. The attrition rate for January was dismal. No one is leaving.

[jimntx]

Maintain hope.  Not only may some of those who never fly retire rather than have to come back and work 3 days each month, but the managed care program should put a stop to the "my doctor will put anything on the FMLA forms I want him to.  I earned that sick leave and I can use it any way I want to" approach to using sick leave as supplemental vacation.

Unfortunately, the loss of incentive pay for over 70 hours may force a number of good flight attendants to quit because they won't be able to afford the job anymore.  I have flown 100 hours a couple of months in the past year.  That would mean about $200/month less for someone at my pay grade.  For some people $200/month might mean the difference between making the rent payment or not.  People who are flying 120-140 hours/month are not doing it just because they love never having any time at home.

[jimntx]

NEWS ALERT!!!!

It was just announced on the ABC affiliate noon news here in Dallas that the APFA has informed them that they will tell the company in the first negotiating session that 5,000 flight attendants are prepared to retire if the company will offer some sort of early out package.  Now, will the company plan that says 2300 f/as must be furloughed or logic prevail?  I don't hold out much hope for the logic approach.

[damajagua]

jimntx, on 03 February 2012 - 12:56 PM, said:

NEWS ALERT!!!!

It was just announced on the ABC affiliate noon news here in Dallas that the APFA has informed them that they will tell the company in the first negotiating session that 5,000 flight attendants are prepared to retire if the company will offer some sort of early out package.  Now, will the company plan that says 2300 f/as must be furloughed or logic prevail?  I don't hold out much hope for the logic approach.

That is BS from the union. I wish 10,000 would retire but there is no way that 5000 f/a are going to retire.
Just flew with one @ JFK that was hire in 1963. This woman has a house in long island that is worth a
few millions dollars. No husband, no children, no family. She is loaded. She said she won't leave even if
AA cut her salary by 50%. She said " I don't need the money" how pathetic and selfish is that. Trust me
we have many just like this one. I would be surprise if 200 or 300 retire.

[FA Mikey]

How ridiculous that APFA has compiled a list in just a couple days of 5000 FA's who want to retire. Even 500 would be out of the question.
There is just no way you are going to see mass retirement. Those who do express a desire simply will never get enough to follow through. I have heard people give out insane expectations of money and benefits. How willing are the remaining FA's willing to subsidize a exodus of SR people? How much of an additional cut in compensation would be be willing to take for people who want to leave?

[damajagua]

FA Mikey, on 04 February 2012 - 11:02 AM, said:

How ridiculous that APFA has compiled a list in just a couple days of 5000 FA's who want to retire. Even 500 would be out of the question.
There is just no way you are going to see mass retirement. Those who do express a desire simply will never get enough to follow through. I have heard people give out insane expectations of money and benefits. How willing are the remaining FA's willing to subsidize a exodus of SR people? How much of an additional cut in compensation would be be willing to take for people who want to leave?

I agree Mikey

I have heard flight attendants say that unless they offer them at $500,000 they won't consider retiring early.
In what planet are these people living?