285 replies to this topic

[john john]

 FrequentFlierCA, on 13 February 2012 - 10:15 PM, said:

The CWA was too little, too late on this one. In order for them to have had any standing with the bankruptcy court they would have had to have won an election and been certified to represent AA's agents before the Chapter 11 filing. From what I read they are now semi-misleading the agents into believing that they can still make a different. They can't- AA is going to make unilateral cuts to that group without having to bargain.

Why vote them in now? That ship has already sailed; why waste more money on dues to the CWA?

Ad Hoc Committee: Bar AMR Changes Before Election
February 22, 2012 · Posted In: Headline News

The Ad Hoc Committee of Passenger Service Agents, representing agents at American Airlines, filed a motion in federal bankruptcy court today to prevent AMR Corp. from making unilateral changes in the wages, benefits and working conditions of American Airlines agents.
http://apsa6001.org/?p=484

[BoeingBoy]

John John,

So far I haven't seen anything that the judge has put out recognizing the Ad Hoc committee's legal standing as the representative of the...who is it...agents. So the Ad Hoc committee carries no more weight than any employee. Second, filing a motion does not mean that the judge will grant the motion. In fact, in this case bankruptcy law trumps the NMB. Otherwise the judge wouldn't have the power to allow AA to abrogate employee contracts - it would be a violation of the status quo.

If that's the best legal argument the CWA can make, maybe the agents need to look elsewhere for a union. Or maybe it's called getting what you pay for. As I understand it (and correct me if I'm wrong), the agents aren't paying dues or money to pay for the legal "talent" so are getting their money's worth...

Jim

[700UW]

Also there is nothing in the bankruptcy code to permit what they filed, and AMFA lost a case, even if the CWA would represent the agents, since there is no CBA in effect, there is no status quo in effect for a newly organized group.

Which the agents are not represented by the CWA nor is there an election scheduled, more smoke being blown up the rear end of the agents.

[john john]

 700UW, on 22 February 2012 - 09:16 PM, said:

Also there is nothing in the bankruptcy code to permit what they filed, and AMFA lost a case, even if the CWA would represent the agents, since there is no CBA in effect, there is no status quo in effect for a newly organized group.

Which the agents are not represented by the CWA nor is there an election scheduled, more smoke being blown up the rear end of the agents.

http://aviationblog....on-to-repr.html
CWA files NMB petition to represent American Airlines passenger service agents


The fact that laboratory conditions must be maintained from the date that AA became aware of the organizing drive will this fact have an impact on the way AA conducts itself towards the passenger service group in and out of the courtroom

[john john]

 BoeingBoy, on 22 February 2012 - 06:22 PM, said:

If that's the best legal argument the CWA can make, maybe the agents need to look elsewhere for a union.

Maybe The US Airline Pilots Association (USAPA) or ALPA will be interested since that are so good at the “best legal argument “ The agent should be so lucky. NOT

[BoeingBoy]

If AA wasn't in bankruptcy, yes. But even you know that AA is in bankruptcy so the real answer is no.

The "laboratory conditions" catch-all is not meant to prevent management from taking actions that stem from the normal course of business - it's not a "nothing can change" black and white issue. Can a company hire employees in the class/craft during an election? Of course. If necessary, can a company furlough employees in the craft/class during an election? Of course. Can a company terminate an employee in the craft/class for cause during an election? Yes. Can no employee in the craft/class retire during an election? Of course they can. The intent of the "laboratory conditions" is to prevent the company from doing anything to influence the members of the craft/class to vote against representation. I doubt that anything AA will do in bankruptcy could be interpreted as trying to influence agents to vote against representation. If anything, AA's actions during bankruptcy would be seen as influencing the agents to vote FOR representation.

Plus, you keep ignoring what you've been told repeatedly - bankruptcy law trumps NMB policy in many ways.

Jim

[BoeingBoy]

 john john, on 23 February 2012 - 09:29 AM, said:

Maybe The US Airline Pilots Association (USAPA) or ALPA will be interested since that are so good at the “best legal argument “ The agent should be so lucky. NOT

Although ALPA wouldn't be interested (they stick to pilots unlike some unions that look for additional dues where-ever they can be found), USAPA is probably a worse choice. Besides, sarcasm doesn't help your argument. It is just an admission that you can't dispute the fact that arguing status quo when the company is in bankruptcy is a waste of paper. It's no different that the individuals who write the judge a letter saying how they were promised A, B, or C and nasty AA wants to renig and please don't let them. It may make the letter writer feel better but it won't change a thing.

Jim

[john john]

 BoeingBoy, on 23 February 2012 - 09:55 AM, said:

Although ALPA wouldn't be interested (they stick to pilots unlike some unions that look for additional dues where-ever they can be found),

Yea I know they are more like an rj union now