286 replies to this topic

[USA320Pilot]

I'm only speculating, but I do believe where there is a lot of smoke there is probably fire.

"In my opinion", Doug is a deep thinker, a strategic thinker by nature, and he would prefer to operate the combined business enterprise. "I believe" he does not care how the final pilot seniority list appears and he is looking for a way out of this mess. A deal with AMR is far from certain, but I sense and the media is speculating something may occur between the two companies.

I'm not sure how the pilot seniority lists would be integrated in a merger with AA; however, what we do know is that under Bond-McCaskill law (unlike ALPA Merger Policy) management has has a seat at the table, the DJ lawsuit District Court decision should be announced about the time the two companies obtain federal government merger blessing, the only list US Airways management currently holds is the Nicolau Award, and the Transition Agreement requires US Airways to implement the Nicolau Award. With all of those parameters in place how would a combined American, US Airways PHL/DCA/CLT-based pilots, and US Airways PHX-based pilots vote on a joint contract?

Another key point is American's pilot group is about twice as large as ours, thus, they have the ability to impose their will on us without separate ratification rights. Furthermore, with all that has occurred during the past 6 years and no separate East and West MEC's how would contract ratification work for US Airways' pilots with only the BPR representing the PHX, DCA, PHL, and CLT pilots?

Furthermore, how would a "one man, one vote" leadership style, if still in power, effect the future?

[Pi brat]

prechilill, on 05 October 2011 - 05:05 AM, said:

Nice post, both sides have professionals and there are some topics/ events which transcend politics. Sully and Skiles both did a great job with what they had and you cannot argue with the outcome.

Thanks pre, nice post. And Buffalo, you're wrong. Despite our petty back and forth on here both groups are professionals with their respective 5% club. I'd put my family on any US airplane, east or west.

[USA320Pilot]

Here's an interesting perspective from a US Airways pilot:

October 2011 - loa 93 decision that supports the company's understanding is released. Those that attempt to disrupt operations are terminated.

4th qtr, 2011 - AA continues to bleed cash. Judge Silver grants west pilots "Class Status". Company returns 3 west "identity theft" pilots to the line. NAC is parked. Those that attempt to disrupt operations are terminated.

1st qtr, 2012 - AA continues to bleed cash as FF use their accumulated miles. Judge Silver sets DJ date for 2nd qtr, 2012. NAC remains parked. Those that attempt to disrupt operations are terminated.

2nd qtr, 2012 - AA files Ch 11. Judge issues order in DJ declaring that company may be held liable for damages if a contract is negotiated that does not contain the unmodified Nic as the SLI. NAC remains parked, unwilling to accept Judge's order. Those that attempt to disrupt operations are terminated.

3rd qtr, 2012 - AA remains in BK as leases are renegotiated or scheduled for return, furloughs are announced, pension is frozen and concessionary contract is negotiated. USAPA files for appeal of DJ. NAC remains parked pending appeal. Those that attempt to disrupt operations are terminated.

4th qtr, 2012 - AA remains in BK as aircraft are returned to leasing companies, pilots are furloughed and concessionary contract negotiations continue. NAC remains parked pending appeal. Those that attempt to disrupt operations are terminated.

1st qtr, 2013 - AA remains in BK. Appeal is denied. NAC remains parked. Those that attempt to disrupt operations are terminated. A large percentage of east pilots make a "deathbed conversion" and approach ALPA regarding representation...ALPA says "No thank you, you crapped in your own bed and now you can lie in it as you negotiate your contract & seniority with the AA pilots...goodluck". Those that attempt to disrupt operations are terminated.

2nd qtr, 2013 thru 2nd qtr, 2014 - Merger is announced. Underfunded USAPA merger committee relying on a late assessment and required to use the Nic is ineffective vs. well-funded AA merger committee. Recent AA furloughees from BK are placed ahead of many east working pilots on SLI using a LOS methodology mirroring USAPA's C&BL's, with previous AA furloughees placed last. DAL -5% + signing bonus looks huge compared to loa 93 for the east or BK for AA pilots and is accepted...by this time neither pilot support or DAL +1% is necessary for management to complete transaction.

[foreright]

Claxon, on 04 October 2011 - 10:02 PM, said:

The AA pilots want nothing to do with western scabs. Why would they Niclau and put stupid young western in senior slots you stupid western idiot! God damn you young snappers are ignorant.! 767 jets bald ass lies are as clear as his sorry head. What an embarrassment that shining mess is. The truck story tells an ignorant
tale. You are really a bald liar.

i love scotch wiskey too! btw agreed. although i wouldnt call the west scabs. not yet....

[luvn737s]

Parker could force the entire group to swallow LOA93. He's seen how unnecessary the velvet glove was. Since the hammer has been far more successful in dealing with labor, I would expect more, not less of it.

[Pi brat]

USA320Pilot, on 05 October 2011 - 08:08 AM, said:

Here's an interesting perspective from a US Airways pilot:

October 2011 - loa 93 decision that supports the company's understanding is released. Those that attempt to disrupt operations are terminated.

4th qtr, 2011 - AA continues to bleed cash. Judge Silver grants west pilots "Class Status". Company returns 3 west "identity theft" pilots to the line. NAC is parked. Those that attempt to disrupt operations are terminated.

1st qtr, 2012 - AA continues to bleed cash as FF use their accumulated miles. Judge Silver sets DJ date for 2nd qtr, 2012. NAC remains parked. Those that attempt to disrupt operations are terminated.

2nd qtr, 2012 - AA files Ch 11. Judge issues order in DJ declaring that company may be held liable for damages if a contract is negotiated that does not contain the unmodified Nic as the SLI. NAC remains parked, unwilling to accept Judge's order. Those that attempt to disrupt operations are terminated.

3rd qtr, 2012 - AA remains in BK as leases are renegotiated or scheduled for return, furloughs are announced, pension is frozen and concessionary contract is negotiated. USAPA files for appeal of DJ. NAC remains parked pending appeal. Those that attempt to disrupt operations are terminated.

4th qtr, 2012 - AA remains in BK as aircraft are returned to leasing companies, pilots are furloughed and concessionary contract negotiations continue. NAC remains parked pending appeal. Those that attempt to disrupt operations are terminated.

1st qtr, 2013 - AA remains in BK. Appeal is denied. NAC remains parked. Those that attempt to disrupt operations are terminated. A large percentage of east pilots make a "deathbed conversion" and approach ALPA regarding representation...ALPA says "No thank you, you crapped in your own bed and now you can lie in it as you negotiate your contract & seniority with the AA pilots...goodluck". Those that attempt to disrupt operations are terminated.

2nd qtr, 2013 thru 2nd qtr, 2014 - Merger is announced. Underfunded USAPA merger committee relying on a late assessment and required to use the Nic is ineffective vs. well-funded AA merger committee. Recent AA furloughees from BK are placed ahead of many east working pilots on SLI using a LOS methodology mirroring USAPA's C&BL's, with previous AA furloughees placed last. DAL -5% + signing bonus looks huge compared to loa 93 for the east or BK for AA pilots and is accepted...by this time neither pilot support or DAL +1% is necessary for management to complete transaction.

You left something out. What would happen to "Those that attempt to disrupt operations". :-)

[Res Judicata]

BuffaloJoe, on 05 October 2011 - 02:34 AM, said:

East pilots are Veterans, West are Rookies! Would a west pilot be able to pull what Sully done?

You mean crash a perfectly flyable aircraft into a river?

[Reed Richards]

USA320Pilot, on 05 October 2011 - 07:50 AM, said:

I'm not sure how the pilot seniority lists would be integrated in a merger with AA; however, what we do know is that under Bond-McCaskill law (unlike ALPA Merger Policy) management has has a seat at the table, the DJ lawsuit District Court decision should be announced about the time the two companies obtain federal government merger blessing, the only list US Airways management currently holds is the Nicolau Award, and the Transition Agreement requires US Airways to implement the Nicolau Award. With all of those parameters in place how would a combined American, US Airways PHL/DCA/CLT-based pilots, and US Airways PHX-based pilots vote on a joint contract?

Any DJ ruling, either way solves nothing. Your logic concerning the T/A and Nic being the list is tired, simply wrong, and years old. Remember, even Parker acknowledges another couple of years in the mix on appeal to the Ninth if the DJ rules his way (which I doubt they will..but anything is possible in PHX!) I am also not connecting the dots on your failed logic that the Nic would be “imposed” via any ruling. East and West would still vote on that list residing in a contract. Nic is not simply imposed prior to negotiations with another airline.

What is more likely, and maybe a speedier resolution of our quagmire (not the pilot on Family Guy) is to enter into a seniority process with East, West, and the new guys in a three way, a do over. Risk for all, and probably a trip Bond-McCaskill. Not a solution that would make either East or West happy, we could spend all day talking about that..but at least one that might put some finality on the table. Also one that would require East and West to want a union hitting on all cylinders. As Al said earlier, a method of funding for the West Seniority effort would have to be worked out, and the chances of that happening with current leadership are nil.

RR