82 replies to this topic

[TWU informer]

Maybe one the financial gurus can shed some light for us.

Is Supervisor, Administrtive Supervisor, Manager, Managing Director, Vice-President, Staff Assistant, Planner, Analyst, Web Desinger, EAP Personel, Medical Staff, Purchaser, Engineer, Marketing, Yield Management, Legal Counsel, Consulting Firms...ect, Pay, Benefits, and Bonus Programs included in Labor Cost per ASM?

[lpbrian]

FWAAA, on Sep 19 2008, 11:08 PM, said:

That's not exactly what AA said.

When AA said " . . . the fact it has the highest labor costs in the industry," it was referring to the highest labor costs per ASM, not high wages per individual. Your wages are low, but AA's labor costs are high. That's not an inconsistent position, but it is inconsistent with profits.

They are the same. If wages are the highest, then labor costs are the highest. It's simple math....

[phlgreaser]

FWAAA, on Sep 20 2008, 12:56 AM, said:

Looks like the worthless union once again delivered what it delivers best: mediocre contract proposals.

I would gladly trade my union (IAM) for another. Even the TWU!

[Bob Owens]

lpbrian, on Sep 21 2008, 07:35 AM, said:

They are the same. If wages are the highest, then labor costs are the highest. It's simple math....

...for simpletons.?

The statement that "Our labor costs are the highest" is deliberately misleading even if its factual. These statements are meant to imply that they pay their workers the most, therefore we should not ask for a raise, but FWAAA is right, they are not saying that they pay the highest wage although thats probably how they want it interpreted. This way when the truth is revealed the company can claim that they werent lying.

If you pay the lowest wage its still very possible that you could still have higher labor costs than someone who pays the highest wage. Effeciency and productivity are the factors that must be added in, its not quantum mathematics but its a little more complicated than A+B=C.


If we had true union leadership they would be the ones rebutting that if AAs labor costs are the highest its because management is not running the company properly because its not the wages that are putting AA in the top spot as far as labor costs its the way the company utilizes labor.

[MCI transplant]

phlgreaser, on Sep 21 2008, 09:08 AM, said:

I would gladly trade my union (IAM) for another. Even the TWU!

------ Form someone that's had both, "Be careful of what you wish for!"

[TWU informer]

Maybe one of the financial gurus or at least someone that knows airline fuzzy math accounting can help out and shed some light for us.

Is the pay/cost/benefits and bonus awards of the Supervisor, Administrtive Supervisor, Manager, Managing Director, Vice-President, Staff Assistant, Planner, Analyst, Web Desinger, EAP Personel, Medical Staff, Purchaser, Engineer, Marketing, Yield Management, Legal Counsel, Consulting Firms...ect, included in Labor Cost per ASM?

[eolesen]

bob said:

If management cant build a business model that allows them to utilize their workforce as efficiently as competotors who pay their workers more then THEY ARE NOT DOING THEIR JOB. If SWA can manage to pay the highest while manitaining low labor costs then AA should be able to do the same.

First of all, you have this idea that SWA wages are great, but totally ignore the differences in their benefits / retirement packages.

If you want SWA wages, then take their workrules and benefits. That's where your "it's management's job" argument stops, because wages and benefits are entirely within the realm of the contract.

I suspect if SWA tried to adopt AA's workrules and benefits with SWA wages, they'd be in worse economic shape than AA is.

WeAAsles, on Sep 20 2008, 03:09 AM, said:

Maybe true but at the end of the day you're still going to have to pay more to travel than you used to and isn't that a sad shame.

You seem to think that people will continue to fly at all costs. Flying isn't like buying a gallon of milk or putting gas in the car. Prices go up, and a proportionate number of people stop flying (business & leisure alike). Others, like me, stop paying for the higher flexi fares and start buying non-refundables in coach.

WeAAsles, on Sep 20 2008, 03:09 AM, said:

I still fly for free though. Oh I think maybe I'll just go to Cancun next week for free. Nah I think I'll fly FIRST CLASS and pay the 20 bucks?

Hmmm.... You're overworked, underpaid, and on the verge of food stamps.

Yet, you want to fly off to Mexico... Figure out how you're going to pay for the hotel & meals yet?? They don´t accept food stamps...

And please, we all know you roll the dice every time you put your name on a standby list. You might want to save that $20 for when you get stuck overnight in CUN or a connecting hub because the flight went out full with paying customers.

And F for $20?? Reality is the FF's like me with free automatic upgrades will be sitting in the seat before you will....

[WeAAsles]

eolesen, on Sep 21 2008, 11:21 AM, said:

You seem to think that people will continue to fly at all costs. Flying isn't like buying a gallon of milk or putting gas in the car. Prices go up, and a proportionate number of people stop flying (business & leisure alike). Others, like me, stop paying for the higher flexi fares and start buying non-refundables in coach.

Hmmm.... You're overworked, underpaid, and on the verge of food stamps.

Yet, you want to fly off to Mexico... Figure out how you're going to pay for the hotel & meals yet?? They don´t accept food stamps...

And please, we all know you roll the dice every time you put your name on a standby list. You might want to save that $20 for when you get stuck overnight in CUN or a connecting hub because the flight went out full with paying customers.

And F for $20?? Reality is the FF's like me with free automatic upgrades will be sitting in the seat before you will....

Ah I'm sorry I must have really touched a nerve, poor baby. P.S. Mr ( I need to show I'm important) Advantage member. Some of us really know how to budget quite well and have other financial interests aside from the aviation industry. But then again from your quite numerous amount of posts I don't think that you may?

But in politeness which from your post you don't quite understand, have a very nice day.