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	<title>Airline Forums</title>
	<description>AirlineForums.com</description>
	<link>http://airlineforums.com/index.php</link>
	<pubDate>Wed, 22 Feb 2012 22:18:03 +0000</pubDate>
	<ttl>240</ttl>
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		<title>US Pilots Labor Discussion</title>
		<link>http://airlineforums.com/topic/49837-us-pilots-labor-discussion/</link>
		<description><![CDATA[Here is the long overdue new Pilots' Labor thread...]]></description>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Feb 2012 22:18:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://airlineforums.com/topic/49837-us-pilots-labor-discussion/</guid>
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		<title>CWA Files for Representation Election</title>
		<link>http://airlineforums.com/topic/52257-cwa-files-for-representation-election/</link>
		<description><![CDATA[CWA Files for Representation Election<br />
<a href='http://apsa6001.org/?p=365' class='bbc_url' title='External link' rel='nofollow external'>http://apsa6001.org/?p=365</a><br />
<br />
With agents clamoring for a voice on the job and protections in these uncertain economic times, the Communications Workers of America on Tuesday filed for a representation election at American Airlines.<br />
The NMB will determine whether or not there is a sufficient “showing of interest” among the agents for the election, and then set the dates.<br />
“We applaud the determination of American agents to protect their futures through strong union representation. By joining the nearly one million member-strong CWA, American Airlines passenger service agents are taking the right step in preserving their careers.<br />
“CWA will best represent the interests of American’s agents during the bankruptcy process and it is critical that these agents not be the only unrepresented work group as American restructures. The day they gain representation, American Airlines management must begin negotiating with their union and American’s agents will gain critical protections.]]></description>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Feb 2012 22:06:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://airlineforums.com/topic/52257-cwa-files-for-representation-election/</guid>
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		<title>AFA Scope- What does this mean?</title>
		<link>http://airlineforums.com/topic/52803-afa-scope-what-does-this-mean/</link>
		<description><![CDATA[The AFA TA has this in section 1.  It has  rather ominous sound to it if the company is involved in another transaction.<br />
<br />
4.  In addition to any other the other protections in this Agreement, any flight time defined section 11.1A, Hours of Service, of this agreement that is operated by US Airways Pilots ,(including during the period of separate pilot operations either America West or US Airways pilots) shall include Flight Attendants on the US Airways Flight Attendant System Seniority List.  Flight Attendants on the US Airways flight attendant system seniority list shall serve  on all commercial passenger revenue flights operated by US Airways, Inc. with pilots on the US Airways system seniority list (including during operations on the US Airways  and America West pilot seniority lists);<strong class='bbc'> provided however, that this paragraph shall not apply if and when following a transaction of any type, the US Airways Pilot  System Seniority List (including during separate operations the US Airways and America West pilot seniority lists) is integrated with another carrier's pilot seniority list.  </strong>   <br />
<br />
This last paragraph is troubling.  I would not vote for any agreement that makes this change to scope with out a full explanation from legal authority.  Does this mean there will be no integration?  i have no idea what this language means?  Perhaps it's just a temporary item to allow other FA's to operate US Airways flights if there is a stalled pilot integration.  I would want more information prior to voting.]]></description>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Feb 2012 22:06:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://airlineforums.com/topic/52803-afa-scope-what-does-this-mean/</guid>
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		<title>10-K Usairways Group</title>
		<link>http://airlineforums.com/topic/52816-10-k-usairways-group/</link>
		<description><![CDATA[<a href='http://www.marketwatch.com/story/10-k-us-airways-group-inc-2012-02-
22' class='bbc_url' title='External link' rel='nofollow external'>http://www.marketwatch.com/story/10-k-us-airways-group-inc-2012-
02-22</a>]]></description>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Feb 2012 21:55:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://airlineforums.com/topic/52816-10-k-usairways-group/</guid>
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		<title>Why is PHX Fleet Service run different than the other Hubs</title>
		<link>http://airlineforums.com/topic/52766-why-is-phx-fleet-service-run-different-than-the-other-hubs/</link>
		<description><![CDATA[My question to all  ...Why is PHX so different than the rest of the system?  Lack of support from the Union? We need to be strong in the Company's home town. I see lots of posts on the Negotiations Team and what they are doing or not doing but if we try to show the Company that we have Solidarity what will PHX do?]]></description>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Feb 2012 21:44:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://airlineforums.com/topic/52766-why-is-phx-fleet-service-run-different-than-the-other-hubs/</guid>
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		<title>APA releases its list of management mistakes and failures</title>
		<link>http://airlineforums.com/topic/52817-apa-releases-its-list-of-management-mistakes-and-failures/</link>
		<description><![CDATA[The APA is laboring under the misconception that a thorough review of AA's history matters to the bankruptcy judge, as it has compiled a long list of management failures and mistakes:<br />
<br />
<p class='citation'>Quote</p><div class="blockquote"><div class='quote'>One argument the union wants U.S. Bankruptcy Judge Sean Lane to hear is that the pilots didn't cause the bankruptcy.<br />
<br />
"We are in bankruptcy because of decisions management has made," Bates wrote. "The events of the past decade will be an evidentiary factor in court proceedings--documenting the fact that our pilots have a long history of acting in good faith to support this airline."</div></div><br />
The judge won't care about who is to "blame," only whether the requirements of section 1113 are met.<br />
<br />
Here's the list:<br />
<br />
<p class='citation'>Quote</p><div class="blockquote"><div class='quote'>1. Crandall created the frequent flyer program. Said he wished he had not done so due the high administrative cost and the fact that it does not create significant customer loyalty.<br />
<br />
2. Crandall created yield management for AA. Yield management was quickly copied by our competitors. He tried to undo yield management programs across the industry with his Value Pricing Plan (see item no. 13).<br />
<br />
3. The purchase of 37/44/50 seat Regional Jets which Mr. Arpey acknowledged to the APA board were incredibly expensive and inefficient ,but purchased "to get around the pilots scope clause". (more than $2 billion of debt for aircraft no one else wants and we can't rid ourselves of.<br />
<br />
4. The purchase of F-100 90 seat jets. This new fleet added incredible training and maintenance costs especially after Fokker went BK. Some of these aircraft were still having leases paid as late as the date of Ch-11 filing.<br />
<br />
5. The high cost of first opening and then subsequently closing "hubs" at RDU and BNA.<br />
<br />
6. The purchase of TWA and subsequent disposal of numerous assets and international routes leaving a poorly performing STL hub.<br />
<br />
7. The purchase of Air Cal and subsequent disposal of all aircraft and most routes. The void remaining in the west coast is now proposed to be filled by a code share with Alaska.<br />
<br />
8. The purchase of Reno and subsequent disposal of all aircraft and routes again furthering the west coast void. The strong arm tactics involved in the purchase resulted in a pilot job action and massive AMR revenue loss.<br />
<br />
9. The intentional non-funding of the pilots' pension plan for 2 years rationalized by the FAA extending mandatory retirement age. This greatly exacerbated the current underfunding.<br />
<br />
10. Operating 3 maintenance facilities for years, (MCI, TULE and Alliance) before finally closing MCI. The alliance facility is still greatly underutilized.<br />
<br />
11. Numerous other conscious operational decisions that resulted in record FAA fines and the grounding at one point of the entire S-80 fleet. The wire bundle debacle. The hiding of faulty repairs on S-80 pressure vessels in the chop line at Roswell.<br />
<br />
12. The failure to purchase the Pan Am pacific routes or merge with NWA thus denying the necessary Asian presence.<br />
<br />
13. The value pricing debacle which was costly and unnecessary<br />
<br />
14. The "more room throughout coach" scheme which resulted in less revenue and far higher revenue differential with direct competitors.<br />
<br />
15. The failure to provide the French Airway system, SNCR, with a workable CRS system resulting in a large financial settlement.<br />
<br />
16. The massive HR failure and management decision to provide bonuses to senior management less than 3 years after all of labor gave up $1.8 billion/yr to restructure outside of bankruptcy. With all labor groups working far more for far less when these bonuses were announced resulted in a first ever multi union grievance which restricted the cash component but allowed unrestricted stock. Despite the incredibly obvious labor problems created as AMR entered bargaining with all 3 unions, management continued to provide themselves with annual bonuses each subsequent April.<br />
<br />
17. The inexplicable but destructive communication failure by AMR in failing to explain to their labor groups in 2011, the dire nature of their financial situation, and after filing for reorganization blaming their failings on labor. <br />
<br />
18. Pulling out of 2nd tier European cities (Lyon, Dusseldorf, Munich, Stockholm, Glasgow) used to feed business to codeshare partners. This made AMR over reliant on the US-LHR market and hurt AMR when the financial industry collapsed twice in a decade: post 9/11 and again during the Global Financial Crisis (GFC).<br />
<br />
19. A premature filing of Ch. 11 based on tactical concerns ( Dec pilot retirements, roll over of some debt instruments, internal senior management disagreement ) rather than first having a strategic plan that was based on major concerns such as the timing of re-fleeting and truly evaluating other options (merger, equity investment from BA or others, approaching labor re. a possible ESOP etc). This knee jerk reaction will prove costly especially with S-80 lessors who have been handed considerable leverage in renegotiation knowing AA will need the majority of these aircraft well into 2014)<br />
<br />
20. A stock buy back plan costing billions in cash but inflating the stock price - THE key metric in the management bonus schemes.<br />
<br />
21. SABRE. 1 billion spent on the system that was designed to give AMR control of ticket sales, initially through travel agents and later through the internet. AMR and SABRE were sued repeatedly by competitors to gain access, which they won. That SABRE failed to enhance AMR profits led to the attempt to kill it via the Value Pricing Plan. SABRE was spun off. AMR then began expensive litigation effort to control SABRE's global distribution system. AMR lost again.<br />
<br />
22. Failure to bid on mail contracts, and subsequent loss thereof.<br />
<br />
23. The sick jihad.<br />
<br />
24. The investment of hundreds of millions in Canadian Air Int'l., which subsequently went BK and defaulted.<br /></div></div><br />
<br />
<a href='http://aviationblog.dallasnews.com/archives/2012/02/pilots-are-spending-plenty-to.html' class='bbc_url' title='External link' rel='nofollow external'>http://aviationblog.dallasnews.com/archives/2012/02/pilots-are-spending-
plenty-to.html</a>]]></description>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Feb 2012 21:37:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://airlineforums.com/topic/52817-apa-releases-its-list-of-management-mistakes-and-failures/</guid>
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		<title>Voluntary Options Opening</title>
		<link>http://airlineforums.com/topic/52632-voluntary-options-opening/</link>
		<description><![CDATA[And, the <em class='bbc'>first</em> 60-day WARN clock begins to tick.  Just when things look blackest, I am always there with the voice of doom.  <img src='http://airlineforums.com/public/style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':lol:' /><br />
                                                <br />
01FEB12/1638                                                    <br />
TO: ALL FLIGHT ATTENDANTS                                       <br />
RE: VOLUNTARY OPTIONS OPENING SOON                              <br />
.                                                               <br />
TODAY WE ARE ANNOUNCING THAT WE WILL SOON OPEN VOLUNTARY        <br />
OPTIONS TO MANAGE A FLIGHT ATTENDANT OVERAGE. THIS OVERAGE IS A <br />
RESULT OF CAPACITY REDUCTIONS MADE TO THE 2012 OPERATING PLAN,  <br />
AND WE NOW HAVE MORE FLIGHT ATTENDANTS THAN NECESSARY TO FLY    <br />
OUR SCHEDULE. IT HAS BECOME INCREASINGLY DIFFICULT TO MANAGE    <br />
THIS OVERAGE THROUGH TEMPORARY MEASURES SUCH AS MONTHLY         <br />
BID LEAVES THEREFORE, WE WILL BE OPENING VOLUNTARY OPTIONS.     <br />
<strong class='bbc'>ITS IMPORTANT TO NOTE THAT THIS OVERAGE IS IN ADDITION TO      ¥      <br />
TODAYS RESTRUCTURING ANNOUNCEMENT WHERE WE ANNOUNCED THE NEED   <br />
FOR APPROXIMATELY 2,300 FEWER FLIGHT ATTENDANTS.                <br />
</strong>.                                                               <br />
WE WILL BE OFFERING OVERAGE LEAVES, MODIFIED PARTNERSHIP FLYING <br />
AND 5 & 10 YEAR VOLUNTARY TRAVEL SEPARATION PROGRAMS EFFECTIVE  <br />
APRIL 1, 2012. SPECIFIC DETAILS OF THE LEAVES, AS WELL AS THE   <br />
TIMELINES FOR SUBMITTING BALLOTS,WILL BE SHARED LATER THIS WEEK    <br />
<br />
Lauri Curtis, our former and now again V-P of Flight Service posted in her Flight Service column that this overage is 500 flight attendants.  So, they are actually talking about eliminating 2800 f/as.  As I am between 1500 and 1600 from the bottom of the seniority list, I guess I shall be toast before the end of this year.]]></description>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Feb 2012 21:32:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://airlineforums.com/topic/52632-voluntary-options-opening/</guid>
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		<title>IBT No Show Forum</title>
		<link>http://airlineforums.com/topic/52597-ibt-no-show-forum/</link>
		<description>Anyone know what has happened to the original forum discussing the SWA and AT senority integration?  Can the site owner fill us in maybe?</description>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Feb 2012 21:23:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://airlineforums.com/topic/52597-ibt-no-show-forum/</guid>
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		<title>Tulsa</title>
		<link>http://airlineforums.com/topic/52676-tulsa/</link>
		<description><![CDATA[<a href='http://www.tulsaworld.com/business/article.aspx?subjectid=446&
articleid=20120205_46_E1_Amecha796266' class='bbc_url' title='External link' rel='nofollow external'>Do it for the Eagle </a><br />
<br />
<a href='http://www.tulsaworld.com/business/article.aspx?subjectid=585&articleid=20120205_46_E1_CUTLIN105925' class='bbc_url' title='External link' rel='nofollow external'>Communities </a>]]></description>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Feb 2012 20:39:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://airlineforums.com/topic/52676-tulsa/</guid>
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		<title>Pension Calculator or Jetnet</title>
		<link>http://airlineforums.com/topic/52806-pension-calculator-or-jetnet/</link>
		<description><![CDATA[Certain company cheerleaders are claiming that only pilots and management will be hurt by dumping the pension plans on the PBGC.  That "you will receive every dime that you would have gotten anyway".<br />
<br />
Well, not according to the Pension Calculator that the <strong class='bbc'>company</strong> has provided on Jetnet--the employee website portal.  If I were to retire on 12/31/12 and start my pension on 1/1/2013 AND the company still has the pension plan, I would receive approximately $495/mo.  If I have the same last day worked (actual) and pension start date, but the PBGC has the pension, I will received only $420/mo--a reduction of over 16% in the monthly benefit--because the last day worked will be 11/29/11 regardless of when I actually stop working.<br />
<br />
However, I am only a short-timer.  I just got my 10 years in January.  (And, yes I realize that I was vested at 5 years, but I would not have been eligible for any other benefit--like retiree travel--until last month.)<br />
<br />
It would be interesting to see what effect dumping the pensions on the PBGC would have on long-term AA employees.  Anyone else willing to go to Jetnet and run the numbers?  Do a regular pension estimate using some dates in the future--for instance, last day worked--12/31/12, pension start date--1/1/2013.  Then do a PBGC estimate using the same dates--just check the PBGC box.<br />
(Remember that a PBGC estimate will force 11/29/2011 into the last day worked field.  You will still need to provide a pension start date.)<br />
<br />
It would be particularly interesting to see the effect upon those of you who have the years but are not old enough yet to retire; so, use a pension start date for the month after you turn 60.<br />
<br />
You don't need to post the actual numbers--a rounding error or two will not be significant.  <img src='http://airlineforums.com/public/style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':lol:' />  Just give us approximate numbers, but to keep one of the cheerleaders from calling you a liar, make sure your numbers are honest, if not exact.<br />
<br />
Even if you don't want to post the numbers here, you need to do this for your own protection and retirement planning.  Your monthly benefit is going to be less if the PBGC takes over.<br />
<br />
P.S.  The thread title was supposed to be Pension Calculation <strong class='bbc'>on</strong> Jetnet.  Sorry about the typo.]]></description>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Feb 2012 20:36:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://airlineforums.com/topic/52806-pension-calculator-or-jetnet/</guid>
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